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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5559188" data-attributes="member: 78116">The class with 2 (3 surges) without durable anyway, against a creature that has an MBA that reduces you by 2 surges when it hits (and can hit automatically with it on another power when he uses it)? Um, you need to rethink that statement a bit I feel <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!    :eek:"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" />Now if we're talking about a thief or something that REALLY kicks out the MBAs, now we're in business.It's worth noting in the above that monster NADs are something curious in 4Es design. Most monsters have strength/con primary, so tank reflex/will very often. Even in Monster Vault, the majority of monsters are fort primary and reflex/will secondary. So targeting fort typically sucks the most, while attacking a creatures reflex and will is almost always optimal. Also Orcus Empowered still sucks, marginally less than the original but he's still not very good. At least he picked up an at-will burst though, but not enough to really give him the bite an end game antagonist really needs.</blockquote>