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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5560131" data-attributes="member: 996">I'd think a 'minimum' design, non-optimized character wouldn't even have Expertise.  Heck, a true 'minimum' design might not even put all the stat bumps it should into it's primary (unthinkable though that may seem).  I think for your argument to work, you have to assume some basic optimization - starting with a good primary, bumping it at every opportunity, taking expertise, generally avoiding clearly inferior choices.  Otherwise Expertise doesn't even succeed as a feat-tax fix.What about the massive crits you get at higher levels?  Epic characters should all be criting on a 19-20 (except for those critting on an 18-20).  That d12 2[W] at-will does 43 damage on a crit, +5d (could be d6 or d12s if vicious), plus 3d12 if it's high crit, plus any feats that boost crits.  That could average anything from 60 up to 100 damage.  Critting on a 19-20 is one in ten swings, not hits, but swings.  That's more like 1 in 5 hits.  In the course of hitting a monster 6 times, there's a good chance you'll crit it once, doing two or three times the normal average damage, and downing the monster a hit or two early, in 5 or even 4 hits (right back to the 3rd level number of hits to kill).Right!  I'm surprised Tiornys didn't point that out, too.  If you're hitting 40% instead of 55%, it takes more rounds to get in those 6 hits... but, it also means that one in 4 of your hits are criticals, so crits become an even bigger part of taking monsters down.  You'll still be taking down monsters in 4 hits, but getting those 4 hits, might, in the absence of any sort of additional attack bonuses from leaders and the like, take 10 rounds instead of 7 or 8.It doesn't work as intended /with/ it, either - not unless it's manditory or automatic in some way.</blockquote>

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