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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 5560163" data-attributes="member: 67338">[edit: I was typeing well teh mod spoke, so I have to redo the postedit 2:       I think that the fact of the matter is , that the designers left the feats as they are, options. I mean the devs have to realize the benfit of people like myself who don't want to give out a free +1/2/3 to the characters.I wonder though, inorder to give the benfit of the doubt (maybe there is a math hole). Can we try to put this togather?I propose we  build 2 or 3 groups of characters that can be used as a baseline. kinda like the characters in 3e in the PHB lyda/jozan ect...Group 1:  the basic D&D group (you know they are iconic for a reason)Human Fighter guardian BuildHafling Rouge artful dodger BuildHuman Wizard Mage BuildDwarf Cleric war priest BuildElf Ranger Archer BuildGroup 2: the 4e variant (I tried to come up with 5 characters unqie to 4e)Goliath Warden Earth str BuildDeva Avenger Wilden Invoker Shardmind Warlord tac lordhalf orc Assassin ExcutionerGroup 3: half way between (these are characters that exsited in some prior edtions but not as iconic)Human PaladinTeifling Warlock fey packKalashar Psion telpathHalf elf Artificer battlesmithMul Barbarian ragebornthen see if we can make say lv1,lv11,lv21,and lv30 to come up with how they handle the levels</blockquote>