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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7315768" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>You'd obviate any stealth check or perception check based on this declaration, though? </p><p></p><p></p><p>It does not, actually. No other reaction or trigger relies on timing to a precision of less than half a second.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Dude, you're usually on top of rules, so I'm a bit shocked at how badly you have this. When you ready a spell for a reaction, you cast it on your turn and hold the release, subject to concentration checks, until your trigger moment. The time to cast is not shortened, it's <em>lengthened</em> (if you consider casting from start of casting to release of spell, at least).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, they are, and if the spell had any of those triggers, you couldn't use it while whistling Dixie in matched socks. They are distinctly different. The issue you're stating here is that since falling is the trigger that many other things that aren't falling can be added and won't affect the trigger. To that, we agree -- the trigger is still 'fallis'. However, that's not what's going on here, you're not adding uncessecary specificity to 'falls' you're adding more granular specificity and changing how the spell actually triggers. Feather fall triggers on 'falls,' and you're changing that to 'being within 10' of the ground.' You can, for sure, but this entails you doing a number of other things to 'falls' that increase granularity unnecessarily.</p><p></p><p>To expound, can you instead, under your understanding, state that you will cast feather fall:</p><p></p><p>10' from the ground?</p><p>1' from the ground?</p><p>1" from the ground?</p><p>.1" from the ground?</p><p>Some infinitesimally small distance from the ground?</p><p>At the very instant that you actually touch the ground?</p><p>At some point where you've made initial contact with the ground, but have yet to suffer any damage from compaction?</p><p>At the point where you've suffered half of the falling damage from the first half of your body hitting the ground, but while the rest of your body is still falling?</p><p></p><p>Where, praytell, would you draw that line? According to your arguments, I see no difference between 60', 10', and 1" or the fraction of almost nothing above the ground -- they're all still while you're falling and within the instantaneous casting you're preferring. Which will you pick?</p><p></p><p>And this matters because you're now breaking the fall into chunks, where you can essentially say, "I'm ignoring all of those falling triggers at 10.9', 10.8', 10.7'. 10/32344423312411441354564635233413424'" and so on until you hit the trigger point you're chosing. Because you have to do this if you're going with your interpretation because you cannot set a trigger at '10' above the ground,' because that's not the trigger for feather fall -- it's only 'falls.' So your ruling instead insists that there are any number of divisions of that trigger that are continuously checked and only bypassed because of a table convention to not run through them all and see if the player wants to use their reaction that that particular slice.</p><p></p><p>I'm also curious as to when you declare this falling happens -- do players fall on their own turns only, or do you stop every initiative count and declare that those falling have fallen another increment or 12?</p><p></p><p>You can cast feather fall when someone 'falls' as is within 60' of the caster. That's the same as saying 'is falling' to any degree I'd care to discuss, what with the imprecision of our shared language. So, that's the trigger, and you can argue it only occurs once in any given fall -- if you chose not to react to that trigger, you chose to forgo reaction to that trigger for it's entirety. You don't get to call back a AO when your opponent leaves your threatened area only to change your mind and use it in the last 1" of their movement -- you forgo and it's for that entire leaving, not just the last little bit.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How long does it take to cast a spell, then? Is it .7 seconds? Where in the 'cast a spell' action does counterspell come into effect? Is it's timing important otherwise? If I counterspell, say, in the first .2 seconds of someone casting a spell, is the outcome at all different than if I counterspell in the last .2 seconds of their casting? Do I gain any advantage for casting earlier as opposed to waiting for the end?</p><p></p><p>All rhetorical questions, of course, the answer being 'timing doesn't really matter, you react to the trigger.' If the trigger is 'falls' and 'within 60'', then when you fall, that's the trigger, if you fall from 10', well, that trigger is 10' from the ground, good for you. If you fall from 500', well, that trigger is 500' from the ground. There isn't a new trigger unless the falling creature stops falling and starts again, because the trigger is 'is falling' and you've ignoring it. Later, when they've fallen 490', they are still in the same triggering fall that you've already ignored.</p><p></p><p>Now, all of that is fascinatingly nitpicky about the rules. You can go there, but I'm not going to bother thinking about that at the table. What I am going to do is realize that the player trying to cast feather fall in the last 10' of a fall is seeking an advantage from doing so, and that's cool -- I want them to do such things. But free advantages aren't handed out because you imagine that you can just do these really cool things -- if you could, they wouldn't be really cool -- so that sound likes it's an easy task for an adventurer, and timing is the purview of initiative, so, if you want to seek that advantage by pushing the spell, awesome, DC 10 init check to time it right. Because that's the kind of choice that's meaningful and interesting. Want to avoid that? Sure, cast it at a safe altitude and there's no check.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7315768, member: 16814"] You'd obviate any stealth check or perception check based on this declaration, though? It does not, actually. No other reaction or trigger relies on timing to a precision of less than half a second. Dude, you're usually on top of rules, so I'm a bit shocked at how badly you have this. When you ready a spell for a reaction, you cast it on your turn and hold the release, subject to concentration checks, until your trigger moment. The time to cast is not shortened, it's [I]lengthened[/I] (if you consider casting from start of casting to release of spell, at least). Yes, they are, and if the spell had any of those triggers, you couldn't use it while whistling Dixie in matched socks. They are distinctly different. The issue you're stating here is that since falling is the trigger that many other things that aren't falling can be added and won't affect the trigger. To that, we agree -- the trigger is still 'fallis'. However, that's not what's going on here, you're not adding uncessecary specificity to 'falls' you're adding more granular specificity and changing how the spell actually triggers. Feather fall triggers on 'falls,' and you're changing that to 'being within 10' of the ground.' You can, for sure, but this entails you doing a number of other things to 'falls' that increase granularity unnecessarily. To expound, can you instead, under your understanding, state that you will cast feather fall: 10' from the ground? 1' from the ground? 1" from the ground? .1" from the ground? Some infinitesimally small distance from the ground? At the very instant that you actually touch the ground? At some point where you've made initial contact with the ground, but have yet to suffer any damage from compaction? At the point where you've suffered half of the falling damage from the first half of your body hitting the ground, but while the rest of your body is still falling? Where, praytell, would you draw that line? According to your arguments, I see no difference between 60', 10', and 1" or the fraction of almost nothing above the ground -- they're all still while you're falling and within the instantaneous casting you're preferring. Which will you pick? And this matters because you're now breaking the fall into chunks, where you can essentially say, "I'm ignoring all of those falling triggers at 10.9', 10.8', 10.7'. 10/32344423312411441354564635233413424'" and so on until you hit the trigger point you're chosing. Because you have to do this if you're going with your interpretation because you cannot set a trigger at '10' above the ground,' because that's not the trigger for feather fall -- it's only 'falls.' So your ruling instead insists that there are any number of divisions of that trigger that are continuously checked and only bypassed because of a table convention to not run through them all and see if the player wants to use their reaction that that particular slice. I'm also curious as to when you declare this falling happens -- do players fall on their own turns only, or do you stop every initiative count and declare that those falling have fallen another increment or 12? You can cast feather fall when someone 'falls' as is within 60' of the caster. That's the same as saying 'is falling' to any degree I'd care to discuss, what with the imprecision of our shared language. So, that's the trigger, and you can argue it only occurs once in any given fall -- if you chose not to react to that trigger, you chose to forgo reaction to that trigger for it's entirety. You don't get to call back a AO when your opponent leaves your threatened area only to change your mind and use it in the last 1" of their movement -- you forgo and it's for that entire leaving, not just the last little bit. How long does it take to cast a spell, then? Is it .7 seconds? Where in the 'cast a spell' action does counterspell come into effect? Is it's timing important otherwise? If I counterspell, say, in the first .2 seconds of someone casting a spell, is the outcome at all different than if I counterspell in the last .2 seconds of their casting? Do I gain any advantage for casting earlier as opposed to waiting for the end? All rhetorical questions, of course, the answer being 'timing doesn't really matter, you react to the trigger.' If the trigger is 'falls' and 'within 60'', then when you fall, that's the trigger, if you fall from 10', well, that trigger is 10' from the ground, good for you. If you fall from 500', well, that trigger is 500' from the ground. There isn't a new trigger unless the falling creature stops falling and starts again, because the trigger is 'is falling' and you've ignoring it. Later, when they've fallen 490', they are still in the same triggering fall that you've already ignored. Now, all of that is fascinatingly nitpicky about the rules. You can go there, but I'm not going to bother thinking about that at the table. What I am going to do is realize that the player trying to cast feather fall in the last 10' of a fall is seeking an advantage from doing so, and that's cool -- I want them to do such things. But free advantages aren't handed out because you imagine that you can just do these really cool things -- if you could, they wouldn't be really cool -- so that sound likes it's an easy task for an adventurer, and timing is the purview of initiative, so, if you want to seek that advantage by pushing the spell, awesome, DC 10 init check to time it right. Because that's the kind of choice that's meaningful and interesting. Want to avoid that? Sure, cast it at a safe altitude and there's no check. [/QUOTE]
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