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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 2345173" data-attributes="member: 141">Hi Cherub!'Twould be nice if Sepulchrave came by, but he's doesn't post on these boards nearly as often as I would like.  Writing this stuff is a way of passing the time between updates of the story hour, or new stuff in his Rogue's Gallery.  It is fun in its own way, but I like reading his material better.So.The Risen Demon/Fallen Angel template I posted above is less than half the story about the vicissitudes of outsiders.  It can model an angel who has fallen from grace, but who is still halfway between heaven and hell.  To model the other half of the fall, you have to undo the negation of the template (i.e. pretend that he was a risen devil, and remove the risen devil template).  For example, suppose we are talking about a fallen angel who has lost the [good] subtype, acquired a vulnerabilty to silver (original DR was 10/silver or evil, say, but now is 10/silver), has the astral as his home plane and while he can use holy smite at will, now costs a negative level each time.  (I don't think this is an actual species of angel; I'm just making up abilities).  This angel has only fallen halfway.  To model his falling all the way into hell, give him the [evil] subtype, add the good component to his DR, replacing the vulnerability with "or" (so he has DR/silver or good), make Hell his home plane and let him use unholy smite at will.  In other words, make him like he was originally, only with good and evil reversed.  Some spells seem inappropriate for a fiend, but are hard to reverse.  Raise dead; do you keep it (so the fiend can tempt people by offering to restore loved ones to life), do you reverse it (slay living) so you can kill your enemies, or twist it (create undead) so you can bring beings back as unholy mockeries of life?  Similarly, what do you do with a succubus's energy draining kiss?  It is not an ability with the evil descriptor, nor is there any obvious "opposite."  Maybe lesser restoration?I suggested that fiends (all evil outsiders, actually) be barred from good aligned planes and from hallowed ground.  This can be extended; some fiends might be confined to evil planes and unhallowed ground.  They can't freely enter the astral plane, and can only be conjured to areas of utmost evil on the Prime (if they can be conjured at all).  Such fiends would have to have "extra evil" in their write-up.  Vulnerability to good weapons, regeneration that can only be overcome by good, lots of evil-subtyped spell-like abilties, corrupted spell-like abilities (as in the BoVD), smite good, etc..  Check out Sepulchrave's Exalted and Exemplar templates (in the Rogue's Gallery under Celestial Dignities) and imagine them with good and evil reversed.  That's the kind of thing I am thinking about.  (The link to the rogue's gallery is in my sig, which should be in the first post of this thread)</blockquote>

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