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Feats: Do they stifle creativity and reduce options?
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<blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 7361185" data-attributes="member: 6932123"><p>So, curious question: If you could expand on the base rules of the game, and thereby eliminate a feat, would you? And if so, which feats would you eliminate that way?</p><p></p><p>I see feats as mainly being ways to "break" a rule (eg: Skulker keeping you from revealing yourself if you miss a shot while hidden), but otherwise just provide a way to be better at a thing you can already do. I don't see the inability to break those rules without the feats as problematic, or "stifling creativity", though in a game without feats, I would not object to having other ways for the characters to break the rules. </p><p></p><p>Reviewing the feats:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Alert: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Athlete: Is fine. Maybe add that swim speed isn't reduced, as well as climbing. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Actor: Would prefer if there were rules for mimicking others, in order to figure out why this is "better". </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Charger: Feels like something that belongs in the base rules. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Crossbow Expert: I'd probably drop the bit about ignoring the Loading feature. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Defensive Duelist: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dual Wielder: Ehh.. Not sure what to do with this. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dungeon Delver: Is fine for a classic dungeon campaign. Can be ignored otherwise. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Durable: Is mostly fine. Might add another minor benefit. EG: You always start a combat round with at least 1-2 temporary HP. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Elemental Adept: Mechanically decent, but not very flavorful. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Grappler: Eliminate. Build better default grappling rules. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Great Weapon Master: Use first feature only. Eliminate second feature (but maybe add some minor extra feature). Allow "power attack" (sacrifice proficiency bonus for extra damage) as a default option in the rules. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Healer: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lightly/Moderately/Heavily Armored: Would combine them into a single feat. Any 'gating' of who can progress to which armor level could be bypassed by just taking a single level of Fighter. The extra complexity in feats isn't needed. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Heavy Armor Master: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Inspiring Leader: Conflicted. Repetitive use feels cheap. Maybe tie benefit to another capability. EG: Give temp hit points from a well-cooked meal (once per long rest, requires at least an hour of prep). Maybe something similar for inspirational speeches, instead of being a per-short rest feat. Turn this into something else. Sacrifice action to give another character an action? </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Keen Mind: Feels like it could use one or two more minor benefits. But also feels like it's a supportive feat for a highly social character (ie: remembers all the gossip, can name everyone who was at the various dance parties, and who was talking to whom, etc), and just has the direction and time sense tacked on as afterthoughts. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Linguist: Mostly OK, in a game where languages matter. Maybe tack on an ability to read lips. Iffy since you can train in new languages, making the feat redundant. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lucky: Maybe drop it to 2 rolls instead of 3. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mage Slayer: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magic Initiate: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Martial Adept: Seems fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mobile: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mounted Combatant: Seems fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Observant: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Polearm Master: Is fine. Does bring up the question of why you can't make opportunity attacks against creatures entering your reach, in general, though. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Resilient: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ritual Caster: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Savage Attacker: Seems fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sentinel: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sharpshooter: Drop third feature. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Shield Master: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skilled: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skulker: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spell Sniper: Ehhh.. Seems limited to low levels, mostly, because of requiring attack rolls, which most spells don't have. Consider a re-think. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tavern Brawler: Is fine (particularly with improved grappling rules). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tough: Reasonable. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">War Caster: Is fine. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Weapon Master: Eliminate. Allow training in weapon proficiencies, like the tool proficiency training. (Maybe even roll armor proficiencies into that.) </li> </ul><p></p><p>So the rule expansions I'd use to eliminate feats would be:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Improve grappling rules. Eliminate Grappler. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Add charging rules. Eliminate Charger. (Though possibly bring it back in if the below issue of opportunity attacks during approach is implemented. Charger could likely break through that.) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Add a 'Power Attack' rule. Eliminate that feature from GWM and SS. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Add training during downtime for weapon proficiencies. Eliminate Weapon Master feat. (Might be problematic if no downtime is given.) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Possibly add training for armor proficiencies, and eliminate lightly/moderately/heavily armored feats. (Might be problematic if no downtime is given.) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Provide base rules that show in what ways the Actor feat improves on them, or breaks limits. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Consider: Opportunity attacks for creatures entering reach, in general? Probably slows down the game a bit, as people Dodge or Disengage to enter melee range. Feels like it has some potential, though. </li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kinematics, post: 7361185, member: 6932123"] So, curious question: If you could expand on the base rules of the game, and thereby eliminate a feat, would you? And if so, which feats would you eliminate that way? I see feats as mainly being ways to "break" a rule (eg: Skulker keeping you from revealing yourself if you miss a shot while hidden), but otherwise just provide a way to be better at a thing you can already do. I don't see the inability to break those rules without the feats as problematic, or "stifling creativity", though in a game without feats, I would not object to having other ways for the characters to break the rules. Reviewing the feats: [LIST] [*]Alert: Is fine. [*]Athlete: Is fine. Maybe add that swim speed isn't reduced, as well as climbing. [*]Actor: Would prefer if there were rules for mimicking others, in order to figure out why this is "better". [*]Charger: Feels like something that belongs in the base rules. [*]Crossbow Expert: I'd probably drop the bit about ignoring the Loading feature. [*]Defensive Duelist: Is fine. [*]Dual Wielder: Ehh.. Not sure what to do with this. [*]Dungeon Delver: Is fine for a classic dungeon campaign. Can be ignored otherwise. [*]Durable: Is mostly fine. Might add another minor benefit. EG: You always start a combat round with at least 1-2 temporary HP. [*]Elemental Adept: Mechanically decent, but not very flavorful. [*]Grappler: Eliminate. Build better default grappling rules. [*]Great Weapon Master: Use first feature only. Eliminate second feature (but maybe add some minor extra feature). Allow "power attack" (sacrifice proficiency bonus for extra damage) as a default option in the rules. [*]Healer: Is fine. [*]Lightly/Moderately/Heavily Armored: Would combine them into a single feat. Any 'gating' of who can progress to which armor level could be bypassed by just taking a single level of Fighter. The extra complexity in feats isn't needed. [*]Heavy Armor Master: Is fine. [*]Inspiring Leader: Conflicted. Repetitive use feels cheap. Maybe tie benefit to another capability. EG: Give temp hit points from a well-cooked meal (once per long rest, requires at least an hour of prep). Maybe something similar for inspirational speeches, instead of being a per-short rest feat. Turn this into something else. Sacrifice action to give another character an action? [*]Keen Mind: Feels like it could use one or two more minor benefits. But also feels like it's a supportive feat for a highly social character (ie: remembers all the gossip, can name everyone who was at the various dance parties, and who was talking to whom, etc), and just has the direction and time sense tacked on as afterthoughts. [*]Linguist: Mostly OK, in a game where languages matter. Maybe tack on an ability to read lips. Iffy since you can train in new languages, making the feat redundant. [*]Lucky: Maybe drop it to 2 rolls instead of 3. [*]Mage Slayer: Is fine. [*]Magic Initiate: Is fine. [*]Martial Adept: Seems fine. [*]Mobile: Is fine. [*]Mounted Combatant: Seems fine. [*]Observant: Is fine. [*]Polearm Master: Is fine. Does bring up the question of why you can't make opportunity attacks against creatures entering your reach, in general, though. [*]Resilient: Is fine. [*]Ritual Caster: Is fine. [*]Savage Attacker: Seems fine. [*]Sentinel: Is fine. [*]Sharpshooter: Drop third feature. [*]Shield Master: Is fine. [*]Skilled: Is fine. [*]Skulker: Is fine. [*]Spell Sniper: Ehhh.. Seems limited to low levels, mostly, because of requiring attack rolls, which most spells don't have. Consider a re-think. [*]Tavern Brawler: Is fine (particularly with improved grappling rules). [*]Tough: Reasonable. [*]War Caster: Is fine. [*]Weapon Master: Eliminate. Allow training in weapon proficiencies, like the tool proficiency training. (Maybe even roll armor proficiencies into that.) [/LIST] So the rule expansions I'd use to eliminate feats would be: [LIST] [*]Improve grappling rules. Eliminate Grappler. [*]Add charging rules. Eliminate Charger. (Though possibly bring it back in if the below issue of opportunity attacks during approach is implemented. Charger could likely break through that.) [*]Add a 'Power Attack' rule. Eliminate that feature from GWM and SS. [*]Add training during downtime for weapon proficiencies. Eliminate Weapon Master feat. (Might be problematic if no downtime is given.) [*]Possibly add training for armor proficiencies, and eliminate lightly/moderately/heavily armored feats. (Might be problematic if no downtime is given.) [*]Provide base rules that show in what ways the Actor feat improves on them, or breaks limits. [*]Consider: Opportunity attacks for creatures entering reach, in general? Probably slows down the game a bit, as people Dodge or Disengage to enter melee range. Feels like it has some potential, though. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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