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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7362576" data-attributes="member: 996">That's fair.  Another way of looking at it is that pointing to a rule that helps define something about your character is an easy, relatively concrete way of getting buy-in or consensus about that aspect of the character.  You have a high STR, you have a strong character.  You know Sleep, you have a character who can put other people to sleep.  In that sense, the rules establish common ground. Nod.  Of course, skill check outcomes literally are dicey, but if you can declare an action that the DM doesn't feel calls for a roll, not dicey.  I guess we're looking at two different skills.  Persuading the DM to rule in your favor is a skill.  Optimizing system choices to assure success is a skill.  If you are more skillful at the former than the latter, then the more of the system that is defined - the more rules, feats, skills, DCs, etc, etc, - the less often you have opportunity to apply that skill, and the more often the system-master gets to apply his skill.   ...Having said that, I feel like I might be creating an impression that either of those are a good thing.  My point was more that they're equally bad.  They're both essentially shifting the resolution of an in-game action from the qualities of the character performing that action to those of the player declaring it.  Making the game less about playing the characters and more about beating the other players.</blockquote>

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