Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Feats, don't fail me now! - feat design in 5e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 6023844" data-attributes="member: 6688937"><p>Yes. Yes it is. For most of D&D's history, such a character is represented as an NPC, traditionally a "0-level" NPC. D&D's core design concept for the party is a group of quasi-protagonistic tomb-robbers...err...adventurers acting like a fantasy special ops team. Character Level is a generalized measure of a PC's ability to stomp on the bad guys and defy traps and other hazards. The centrality of the tomb-robbing part has varied a bit over the years, but the adventure part hasn't.</p><p></p><p>I realize that people play D&D in a wide variety of playstyles and with a wide variety of motives. However, the concept of Fantasy High-Adventure is pretty central to the design of the game. I can't think of any edition (barring Dragon articles or the near-infinite splat material) where playing a "I don't fight or contribute to fights" is an easily workable concept (maybe a wizard who refuses to cast spells?).</p><p></p><p>If you and your group are not interested in that...then, and I mean this earnestly... maybe this isn't the game you are looking for. (FATE, Burning Wheel, I'm sure there are others...) I don't suggest that lightly, either. I'd love to have a FATE group going, but AFAICT, I'm the only one in my area interested. However, if your group is interested in going that far afield of the D&D script, you might want to consider it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay so...You don't want to swap a combat specialty/feat for more OoC/Background stuff, but then you do? Is it just the idea they might not be called the same thing? If they are separated into Columns A and B, then adding items to Column B that say "get more from Column A" has got to be one of the easiest houserules I can think of (if it isn't core from the get go.) But then you seem to be objecting to that as "an appropriate answer"...</p><p></p><p>I think the critical thing about this is that the relative desirability of abilities between the three pillars varies a <em>lot </em>between campaigns/characters, making it very difficult to balance between the pillars.* However, the combat stuff is always desirable to a large portion of the audience ("my character's survival is at stake!"). Putting them both in the same pile means that many players will feel obliged to always select the maximum-value Combat choices, and ignore OoC stuff ("trap options", etc.) In this way, a <em>lack</em> of siloing decreases viable character concepts for a large segment of the audience, turning every character into a combat machine. (I know that's not realistic behavior for humans...but then D&D PCs are pretty far from realistic anyway.)</p><p></p><p>Because of the "survivability trump", I further think that these exchanges should be one-way. That is, you should be <em>not</em> be able to trade RP or Exploration abilities for increased Combat effectiveness. Doing so makes it very difficult to produce a reasonably predictable game at all.** </p><p></p><p>Also, "punchyness" ?</p><p></p><p>*For example, I, as a DM, am not terribly fond of traps, but I do love NPC interactions. I suspect my games distinctly "imbalance" the two OoC pillars of Exploration and Role-Playing. Not that anyone complains....<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />.</p><p></p><p>**The entirety of my thinking on this matter is predicated on the general structure and habits of D&D. Plenty of other games have structures and design goals where such siloing would be counterproductive or nonsensical, yet other games have structures and designs where entirely different siloing is effective..</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ratskinner, post: 6023844, member: 6688937"] Yes. Yes it is. For most of D&D's history, such a character is represented as an NPC, traditionally a "0-level" NPC. D&D's core design concept for the party is a group of quasi-protagonistic tomb-robbers...err...adventurers acting like a fantasy special ops team. Character Level is a generalized measure of a PC's ability to stomp on the bad guys and defy traps and other hazards. The centrality of the tomb-robbing part has varied a bit over the years, but the adventure part hasn't. I realize that people play D&D in a wide variety of playstyles and with a wide variety of motives. However, the concept of Fantasy High-Adventure is pretty central to the design of the game. I can't think of any edition (barring Dragon articles or the near-infinite splat material) where playing a "I don't fight or contribute to fights" is an easily workable concept (maybe a wizard who refuses to cast spells?). If you and your group are not interested in that...then, and I mean this earnestly... maybe this isn't the game you are looking for. (FATE, Burning Wheel, I'm sure there are others...) I don't suggest that lightly, either. I'd love to have a FATE group going, but AFAICT, I'm the only one in my area interested. However, if your group is interested in going that far afield of the D&D script, you might want to consider it. Okay so...You don't want to swap a combat specialty/feat for more OoC/Background stuff, but then you do? Is it just the idea they might not be called the same thing? If they are separated into Columns A and B, then adding items to Column B that say "get more from Column A" has got to be one of the easiest houserules I can think of (if it isn't core from the get go.) But then you seem to be objecting to that as "an appropriate answer"... I think the critical thing about this is that the relative desirability of abilities between the three pillars varies a [I]lot [/I]between campaigns/characters, making it very difficult to balance between the pillars.* However, the combat stuff is always desirable to a large portion of the audience ("my character's survival is at stake!"). Putting them both in the same pile means that many players will feel obliged to always select the maximum-value Combat choices, and ignore OoC stuff ("trap options", etc.) In this way, a [I]lack[/I] of siloing decreases viable character concepts for a large segment of the audience, turning every character into a combat machine. (I know that's not realistic behavior for humans...but then D&D PCs are pretty far from realistic anyway.) Because of the "survivability trump", I further think that these exchanges should be one-way. That is, you should be [I]not[/I] be able to trade RP or Exploration abilities for increased Combat effectiveness. Doing so makes it very difficult to produce a reasonably predictable game at all.** Also, "punchyness" ? *For example, I, as a DM, am not terribly fond of traps, but I do love NPC interactions. I suspect my games distinctly "imbalance" the two OoC pillars of Exploration and Role-Playing. Not that anyone complains....;). **The entirety of my thinking on this matter is predicated on the general structure and habits of D&D. Plenty of other games have structures and design goals where such siloing would be counterproductive or nonsensical, yet other games have structures and designs where entirely different siloing is effective.. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Feats, don't fail me now! - feat design in 5e
Top