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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5535184" data-attributes="member: 78116">Strictly speaking, if they aren't being stopped on movement they will simply move anyway. The point of moving away is so they can employ a much better use of their standard action. Shift + charge is another option, but doesn't have much point when you will take an attack either way. So just take the lesser of the two attacks. In reality it's not so much deliberate as there isn't a point to shifting when you'll get attacked anyway. So might as well make a full move and then use a significantly better attack than a charge MBA.I mean basically what you're saying is you don't understand why the monster isn't bothering to take its full movement, instead of shifting 1 square, when it will be attacked either way. That's actually kind of bizarre to me but there you go, I can see where you're coming from though. A fighter actually presents a very annoying decision of having to waste a potentially better power by shifting + charge, or risking an OA that will stop your movement dead. This dilemma is what makes the fighter much more difficult to deal with than the knight is. A creature can't get in the pigeons of bloodied squishy PCs with its encounter burst or multiple attack standard action, because it has to waste the attack on a shift + charge. He's not a happy creature because the optimal time to use that power might disappear by his next turn. On the other hand, a creature can realize it can take 1 attack, get right into the bloodied PCs - wipe the floor with them AND take only damage for its effort (Without defend the line especially - I mention this stance a LOT don't i?). It won't get its movement stopped. If the knight misses he does nothing anyway. It can then move where it is absolutely optimal to attack and then attack using whatever standard action it wants. That's amazingly powerful and bear in mind that it doesn't take any -2 penalty (or -3 by paragonish, I think it's called Daunting Challenge but I would need to check). A bit of damage is a small price to pay to inflict far more with a burst at the best possible time to use it.Believe me a shift + charge is a lot worse than a move + do whatever the hell you want. Unless the creatures thing is charging of course. The point is that why bother not taking the move action in the first place when you'll be attacked either way? It's paradoxical I realize, but the creature will take an attack either way and so shifting is rather pointless. So I just choose to walk away most of the time. Ironically this is because of the lack of an effective mark as well. If the Knights mark could follow the creature, I wouldn't bother doing this. But when I can get a good deal out of a creature with a move action, especially towards the beginning of a fight I will normally do it (that is if the creature realizes it can do this in the first place).It's worth noting as Walter explained above, that this is why the Cavalier is actually a pretty solid defender - despite a similar deficit. You have a terribly crappy choice of "Do I suffer automatic radiant damage" or "Do I risk being dazed and wasting my entire turn?". This makes the Cavalier MUCH more sticky, but still vulnerable to forced movement. But at least the cavalier can daze any enemy he hits with his attacks, so that if something is important he can give it quite a headache by dazing it (so usually it can't take full advantage of him being pushed away).The difference actually is the final intent. If the monster ends up in X position, where it can get 3 PCs instead of just say, making an MBA against the Knight the Knight isn't winning anything here. In reality, I don't mind provoking consistently, because monsters being prepared to take risks in combat makes it more interesting (and much less predictable). Not that zombies ever bother with such tactics, but anything intelligent like wraiths or humanoid enemies can make such decisions. <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/5406354-post9.html" target="_blank">I actually have an example of such an encounter so you can see precisely how I make decisions about what monsters attack</a>. You can also see a good example of the wraiths from MV in action in the same encounter. Just to show that I do actually practice what I preach, you can observe the two different kinds of tactics employed by creatures in the encounter (compare the zombies with the wraiths).Noting that Knights hate Wraiths with a burning passion of the sun because the sods turn invisible anyway. So if a Knight ever does anything to a wraith in the first place it's a miracle and it's time to call the vatican. The principle would be the same, the dumb zombies would do whatever while the smarter creatures would outright attempt to ignore the knight (if possible). It normally is the case the smarter creatures are the ones you have to watch for too :OOf course now Knights can get answers to some of these problems, like trading a power strike for come and get it. There are situations where you can make it very very hard to ever leave the aura. For example by using come and get it on difficult terrain (which is just about the most classic CaGI scenario you can imagine). So I think the Knight has gained an absolute ton from these feats and the weaponmaster has gained, um. Nothing really.</blockquote>

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