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<blockquote data-quote="Machiavelli" data-source="post: 4026303" data-attributes="member: 40964">I'm not confused in the slightest, actually, but maybe &quot;enough time&quot; is misleading?&nbsp; How about &quot;some concentration&quot; instead?&nbsp; The idea is, unless the custodian has a particular knack for performing a skill under pressure (like a 4th lvl warlock taking 10 on UMD) he needs to not be distracted or rushed to apply his &quot;tricks&quot;.&nbsp; He needs to be able to take 10.&nbsp;I hadn't clarified it either way, but not being aware makes much more sense, doesn't it?&nbsp; Hmm, Subtle Tweak could be made to only affect the first d20 roll in the very next round, instead of working for an entire round.&nbsp; As a standard action, it would have to be used wisely to not be a waste of an action, but if used wisely it could still be very nasty.&nbsp;Why do you think it should?&nbsp; It's really a call based on just how optimizable the re-rolls should be for criticals.&nbsp; If 21 through 24 are just 10+modifiers, instead of crits, then rolling 2d12 actually lowers the crit odds for any crit range up to 17-20.&nbsp; At 15-20 range the crit odds go above 1d20 crit odds by a little, and beyond that the 1d12 crit odds skyrocket above 1d20 odds. Expanding crits to include 21-24 increases the crit odds by a flat 6.9% across the board.See for yourself; this is an analysis of the odds:[sblock][code]ALL POSSIBLE ROLLS: (12^2=144 total)1-1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-3&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-4&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-5&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-6&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-7&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-8&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-9&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-10&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-11&nbsp;&nbsp; 1-12&nbsp;&nbsp; 2-12&nbsp;&nbsp; 3-12&nbsp;&nbsp; 4-12&nbsp;&nbsp; 5-12&nbsp;&nbsp; 6-12&nbsp;&nbsp; 7-12&nbsp;&nbsp; 8-12&nbsp;&nbsp; 9-12&nbsp;&nbsp; 10-12&nbsp;&nbsp; 11-12&nbsp;&nbsp; 12-12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2-1&nbsp;&nbsp; 2-2&nbsp;&nbsp; 2-3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2-4&nbsp;&nbsp; 2-5&nbsp;&nbsp; 2-6&nbsp;&nbsp; 2-7&nbsp;&nbsp; 2-8&nbsp;&nbsp; 2-9&nbsp; &nbsp; 2-10&nbsp;&nbsp; 2-11&nbsp;&nbsp; 3-11&nbsp;&nbsp; 4-11&nbsp;&nbsp; 5-11&nbsp;&nbsp; 6-11&nbsp;&nbsp; 7-11&nbsp;&nbsp; 8-11&nbsp;&nbsp; 9-11&nbsp;&nbsp; 10-11&nbsp; 11-11&nbsp;&nbsp; 12-11&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3-1&nbsp;&nbsp; 3-2&nbsp;&nbsp; 3-3&nbsp;&nbsp; 3-4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3-5&nbsp;&nbsp; 3-6&nbsp;&nbsp; 3-7&nbsp;&nbsp; 3-8&nbsp; &nbsp; 3-9&nbsp; &nbsp; 3-10&nbsp;&nbsp; 4-10&nbsp;&nbsp; 5-10&nbsp;&nbsp; 6-10&nbsp;&nbsp; 7-10&nbsp;&nbsp; 8-10&nbsp;&nbsp; 9-10&nbsp;&nbsp; 10-10&nbsp; 11-10&nbsp; 12-10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4-1&nbsp;&nbsp; 4-2&nbsp;&nbsp; 4-3&nbsp;&nbsp; 4-4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4-5&nbsp;&nbsp; 4-6&nbsp;&nbsp; 4-7&nbsp; &nbsp; 4-8&nbsp; &nbsp; 4-9&nbsp; &nbsp; 5-9&nbsp; &nbsp; 6-9&nbsp; &nbsp; 7-9&nbsp; &nbsp; 8-9&nbsp; &nbsp; 9-9&nbsp; &nbsp; 10-9&nbsp;&nbsp; 11-9&nbsp;&nbsp; 12-9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5-1&nbsp;&nbsp; 5-2&nbsp;&nbsp; 5-3&nbsp;&nbsp; 5-4&nbsp;&nbsp; 5-5&nbsp;&nbsp; 5-6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5-7&nbsp; &nbsp; 5-8&nbsp; &nbsp; 6-8&nbsp; &nbsp; 7-8&nbsp; &nbsp; 8-8&nbsp; &nbsp; 9-8&nbsp; &nbsp; 10-8&nbsp;&nbsp; 11-8&nbsp;&nbsp; 12-8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6-1&nbsp;&nbsp; 6-2&nbsp;&nbsp; 6-3&nbsp;&nbsp; 6-4&nbsp;&nbsp; 6-5&nbsp; &nbsp; 6-6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6-7&nbsp; &nbsp; 7-7&nbsp; &nbsp; 8-7&nbsp; &nbsp; 9-7&nbsp; &nbsp; 10-7&nbsp;&nbsp; 11-7&nbsp;&nbsp; 12-7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 7-1&nbsp;&nbsp; 7-2&nbsp;&nbsp; 7-3&nbsp;&nbsp; 7-4&nbsp; &nbsp; 7-5&nbsp; &nbsp; 7-6&nbsp; &nbsp; 8-6&nbsp; &nbsp; 9-6&nbsp; &nbsp; 10-6&nbsp;&nbsp; 11-6&nbsp;&nbsp; 12-6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 8-1&nbsp;&nbsp; 8-2&nbsp;&nbsp; 8-3&nbsp; &nbsp; 8-4&nbsp; &nbsp; 8-5&nbsp; &nbsp; 9-5&nbsp; &nbsp; 10-5&nbsp;&nbsp; 11-5&nbsp;&nbsp; 12-5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 9-1&nbsp;&nbsp; 9-2&nbsp; &nbsp; 9-3&nbsp; &nbsp; 9-4&nbsp; &nbsp; 10-4&nbsp;&nbsp; 11-4&nbsp;&nbsp; 12-4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10-1&nbsp;&nbsp; 10-2&nbsp;&nbsp; 10-3&nbsp;&nbsp; 11-3&nbsp;&nbsp; 12-3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 11-1&nbsp;&nbsp; 11-2&nbsp;&nbsp; 12-2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 12-1TOTALS:2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; ODDS:1/144 1/72&nbsp; 1/48&nbsp; 1/36&nbsp; 5/144 1/24&nbsp; 7/144 1/18&nbsp; 1/16&nbsp; 5/72&nbsp;&nbsp; 11/144 1/12&nbsp;&nbsp; 11/144 5/72&nbsp;&nbsp; 1/16&nbsp;&nbsp; 1/18&nbsp;&nbsp; 7/144&nbsp; 1/24&nbsp;&nbsp; 5/144&nbsp; 1/36&nbsp;&nbsp; 1/48&nbsp; &nbsp; 1/72&nbsp; &nbsp; 1/144.7%&nbsp;&nbsp; 1.4%&nbsp; 2%&nbsp; &nbsp; 2.8%&nbsp; 3.5%&nbsp; 4.2%&nbsp; 4.9%&nbsp; 5.6%&nbsp; 6.3%&nbsp; 6.9%&nbsp;&nbsp; 7.6%&nbsp;&nbsp; 8.3%&nbsp;&nbsp; 7.6%&nbsp;&nbsp; 6.9%&nbsp;&nbsp; 6.3%&nbsp;&nbsp; 5.6%&nbsp;&nbsp; 4.9%&nbsp;&nbsp; 4.2%&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.5%&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.8%&nbsp;&nbsp; 2%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1.4%&nbsp; &nbsp; .7%CRIT ODDS:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1d20&nbsp; 2d12 vs 2d12(+6.9% ----&gt;&gt;)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (6.9%=2.8% + 2%&nbsp; +&nbsp;&nbsp; 1.4% +&nbsp; .7%)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (20)&nbsp;&nbsp; vs(20-24) =&nbsp; 5%&nbsp; &nbsp; 3.5%&nbsp;&nbsp; 10.4%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (19-20)vs(19-24) = 10%&nbsp; &nbsp; 7.7%&nbsp;&nbsp; 14.6%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (18-20)vs(18-24) = 15%&nbsp;&nbsp; 12.6%&nbsp;&nbsp; 19.5%&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (17-20)vs(17-24) = 20%&nbsp;&nbsp; 18.2%&nbsp;&nbsp; 25.1%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (15-20)vs(15-24) = 30%&nbsp;&nbsp; 31.4%&nbsp;&nbsp; 38.3%&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (12-20)vs(12-24) = 45%&nbsp;&nbsp; 54.9%&nbsp;&nbsp; 61.8%[/code][/sblock]Personally, after analyzing the odds, it seems you're right that the critical threat range should include 21-24 for attack rolls. However, both in and out of combat, should 21-24 be equivalent to a natural 20?&nbsp; I don't really think so, because it more than doubles the odds for a natural 20 and steals the 20's thunder quite a bit. However, if only a 20 is a 20, then rolling 2d12 cuts the odds of rolling 20 by almost a third.Thoughts, anyone?&nbsp; It's a bit of a dilemma.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Machiavelli, post: 4026303, member: 40964"] I'm not confused in the slightest, actually, but maybe "enough time" is misleading? How about "some concentration" instead? The idea is, unless the custodian has a particular knack for performing a skill under pressure (like a 4th lvl warlock taking 10 on UMD) he needs to not be distracted or rushed to apply his "tricks". He needs to be able to take 10. I hadn't clarified it either way, but [b]not[/b] being aware makes much more sense, doesn't it? Hmm, Subtle Tweak could be made to only affect the first d20 roll in the very next round, instead of working for an entire round. As a standard action, it would have to be used wisely to not be a waste of an action, but if used wisely it could still be very nasty. Why do you think it should? It's really a call based on just how optimizable the re-rolls should be for criticals. If 21 through 24 are just 10+modifiers, instead of crits, then rolling 2d12 actually lowers the crit odds for any crit range up to 17-20. At 15-20 range the crit odds go above 1d20 crit odds by a little, and beyond that the 1d12 crit odds skyrocket above 1d20 odds. Expanding crits to include 21-24 increases the crit odds by a flat 6.9% across the board. See for yourself; this is an analysis of the odds:[sblock][code]ALL POSSIBLE ROLLS: (12^2=144 total) 1-1 1-2 1-3 1-4 1-5 1-6 1-7 1-8 1-9 1-10 1-11 1-12 2-12 3-12 4-12 5-12 6-12 7-12 8-12 9-12 10-12 11-12 12-12 2-1 2-2 2-3 2-4 2-5 2-6 2-7 2-8 2-9 2-10 2-11 3-11 4-11 5-11 6-11 7-11 8-11 9-11 10-11 11-11 12-11 3-1 3-2 3-3 3-4 3-5 3-6 3-7 3-8 3-9 3-10 4-10 5-10 6-10 7-10 8-10 9-10 10-10 11-10 12-10 4-1 4-2 4-3 4-4 4-5 4-6 4-7 4-8 4-9 5-9 6-9 7-9 8-9 9-9 10-9 11-9 12-9 5-1 5-2 5-3 5-4 5-5 5-6 5-7 5-8 6-8 7-8 8-8 9-8 10-8 11-8 12-8 6-1 6-2 6-3 6-4 6-5 6-6 6-7 7-7 8-7 9-7 10-7 11-7 12-7 7-1 7-2 7-3 7-4 7-5 7-6 8-6 9-6 10-6 11-6 12-6 8-1 8-2 8-3 8-4 8-5 9-5 10-5 11-5 12-5 9-1 9-2 9-3 9-4 10-4 11-4 12-4 10-1 10-2 10-3 11-3 12-3 11-1 11-2 12-2 12-1 TOTALS: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ODDS: 1/144 1/72 1/48 1/36 5/144 1/24 7/144 1/18 1/16 5/72 11/144 1/12 11/144 5/72 1/16 1/18 7/144 1/24 5/144 1/36 1/48 1/72 1/144 .7% 1.4% 2% 2.8% 3.5% 4.2% 4.9% 5.6% 6.3% 6.9% 7.6% 8.3% 7.6% 6.9% 6.3% 5.6% 4.9% 4.2% 3.5% 2.8% 2% 1.4% .7% CRIT ODDS: 1d20 2d12 vs 2d12(+6.9% ---->>) (6.9%=2.8% + 2% + 1.4% + .7%) (20) vs(20-24) = 5% 3.5% 10.4% (19-20)vs(19-24) = 10% 7.7% 14.6% (18-20)vs(18-24) = 15% 12.6% 19.5% (17-20)vs(17-24) = 20% 18.2% 25.1% (15-20)vs(15-24) = 30% 31.4% 38.3% (12-20)vs(12-24) = 45% 54.9% 61.8%[/code][/sblock]Personally, after analyzing the odds, it seems you're right that the critical threat range should include 21-24 for attack rolls. However, both in and out of combat, should 21-24 be equivalent to a natural 20? I don't really think so, because it more than doubles the odds for a natural 20 and steals the 20's thunder quite a bit. However, if only a 20 is a 20, then rolling 2d12 cuts the odds of rolling 20 by almost a third. Thoughts, anyone? It's a bit of a dilemma. [/QUOTE]

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