Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
#Feminism Is A Collection of 34 "Nanogames" From Designers Around The World
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7715277" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Well, I am in fact saying 'good design' is not a matter of taste, but that there are objective qualities that are undesirable in a game. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, 'spin the bottle' reputedly has its attractions but they have nothing to do with the game, which I think largely gets in the way. </p><p></p><p>But in general, I think we can say these games are poorly designed (to the extent that they are designed at all) and either are not fun or do not provide enough of a framework to be fun for most groups. I mean, 90% of the games are just simple theater games such as might see on 'Whose Line is it Anyway', and while theater games can be fun, people who have the particular talents to make them enjoyable are fairly rare. One thing I note is that I think most groups will run out of play within the first 2-3 minutes and not have an idea for what further to do or say. Some of them seem to think that they are going to prompt 2 hours of role-play off of 5 sentences of framework. That's like a movie length feature, and even if you forced a group to stay in character for 2 hours I think you'd reach 'Blair Witch Project' territory where most of the improvised dialogue is just some equivalent of BWP's endless swearing.</p><p></p><p>They are also terrible as 'conversation starters'. For one thing, face to face role-playing is one of the most intimate and intense ways of interacting that there is. You are taking subjects that are already explosive, and throwing a match on them. I would hope that I don't have to explain to DMs out there why certain subjects tend to be taboo or banned at gaming tables. It's not that you cant' have a productive discussion about date rape or sexuality or any other subject among very close friends, but a roleplaying session about it is a mine field not likely to provoke a lot of understanding. </p><p></p><p>Moreover, they are thoughtless. Even the ones that try to be clever have in their construction a certain assumption about what the play and what the answers should be like because the author assumes that they know the rough shape at least of the correct answer. In many cases, even that's generous - these are meant to be little soap boxes to launch sermons from. But, for example, if it we're me, I might challenge the author that one surviving soap opera clip was a Mexican or Bollywood soap, and that they ought to play that soap opera in a stereotypical fashion and then pretend to be anthropologists from the future analyzing the culture. (I mean, how important to modern American culture are soap operas anyway? Haven't most of them ceased to exist? Would most participants under the age of 30 even watched one?) The game would be no more fun that way, and still depends on having the rare group of funny creative hams that could pull it off, but it might slap them in the head regarding the shear and utter stupidity of trying to have a 'debate' or 'conversation' around a controversial subject where the basis of that interaction is inventing what you think someone other than yourself would say or think. None of that justifies the 'game', or even calling it a 'game', and in fact talking about why they'd feel uncomfortable stereotyping a Mexican or Bollywood soap would probably be more productive than actually stereotyping a Mexican or Bollywood soap.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7715277, member: 4937"] Well, I am in fact saying 'good design' is not a matter of taste, but that there are objective qualities that are undesirable in a game. Well, 'spin the bottle' reputedly has its attractions but they have nothing to do with the game, which I think largely gets in the way. But in general, I think we can say these games are poorly designed (to the extent that they are designed at all) and either are not fun or do not provide enough of a framework to be fun for most groups. I mean, 90% of the games are just simple theater games such as might see on 'Whose Line is it Anyway', and while theater games can be fun, people who have the particular talents to make them enjoyable are fairly rare. One thing I note is that I think most groups will run out of play within the first 2-3 minutes and not have an idea for what further to do or say. Some of them seem to think that they are going to prompt 2 hours of role-play off of 5 sentences of framework. That's like a movie length feature, and even if you forced a group to stay in character for 2 hours I think you'd reach 'Blair Witch Project' territory where most of the improvised dialogue is just some equivalent of BWP's endless swearing. They are also terrible as 'conversation starters'. For one thing, face to face role-playing is one of the most intimate and intense ways of interacting that there is. You are taking subjects that are already explosive, and throwing a match on them. I would hope that I don't have to explain to DMs out there why certain subjects tend to be taboo or banned at gaming tables. It's not that you cant' have a productive discussion about date rape or sexuality or any other subject among very close friends, but a roleplaying session about it is a mine field not likely to provoke a lot of understanding. Moreover, they are thoughtless. Even the ones that try to be clever have in their construction a certain assumption about what the play and what the answers should be like because the author assumes that they know the rough shape at least of the correct answer. In many cases, even that's generous - these are meant to be little soap boxes to launch sermons from. But, for example, if it we're me, I might challenge the author that one surviving soap opera clip was a Mexican or Bollywood soap, and that they ought to play that soap opera in a stereotypical fashion and then pretend to be anthropologists from the future analyzing the culture. (I mean, how important to modern American culture are soap operas anyway? Haven't most of them ceased to exist? Would most participants under the age of 30 even watched one?) The game would be no more fun that way, and still depends on having the rare group of funny creative hams that could pull it off, but it might slap them in the head regarding the shear and utter stupidity of trying to have a 'debate' or 'conversation' around a controversial subject where the basis of that interaction is inventing what you think someone other than yourself would say or think. None of that justifies the 'game', or even calling it a 'game', and in fact talking about why they'd feel uncomfortable stereotyping a Mexican or Bollywood soap would probably be more productive than actually stereotyping a Mexican or Bollywood soap. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
#Feminism Is A Collection of 34 "Nanogames" From Designers Around The World
Top