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Fencer Class - now v3
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<blockquote data-quote="cooperflood" data-source="post: 4359390" data-attributes="member: 55481"><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">I like the general idea of what you’re trying to do and love the formatting and flavor text; however your class represents a significant amount of power creep. You claim to be trying to create a hybrid class, but in the end you gave the class the best of both worlds; great Defender abilities and great Striker Abilities. You took next to no abilities away from the Fighter and just added lots of Ranger abilities and powers to the Fighter concept.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">One of your primary concerns seems to be the lack of AC in a light armor class. There is no need for the +3 to AC you gave them under Fencer Combat Talent. You are aware that a DEX or INT based character in Hide will have nearly the same AC as a character in Plate Armor (assuming all else is equal). There is a thread on the Wizards forum that explores the maximum Defense scores that covers this pretty well, but their forums seem down at this time. A Character with a starting DEX of 20 in Hide ends up with an AC of 35 at level 30 (Level-15, Hide-5, DEX-8, Enhancement-6) while a character in Plate ends up with an AC of 35 at level 30 (Level-15, Plate 14, Enhancement-6). Assuming you were actually trying to get the highest AC possible I’m pretty sure (but not 100%) that Hide would be your choice (Pit Fighter +1, Demigod +1, Heavy Shield +2, and Shield Specialization or Armor Mastery +1 for a Theoretical Cap of 40). Add of course you get this high AC without the penalties that come from Heavy Armor.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">I think a simpler way to accomplish the class your after is to take the Fighter class and make a few simple changes.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">1st) Switch any reference of STR with DEX and vice versa.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">2nd) Switch any reference of WIS with CHA and vice versa.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">3rd) Give them four skills and add Acrobatics, Bluff, and Diplomacy to the Skill List</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">4th) Change Bonuses to Defense to: Fortitude +1, Reflex +1</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">5th) Remove Chainmail, Scale, and Heavy Shield from the Armor Proficiencies</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">6th) Add all those new Fencer feats and Paragon paths (Need to change Attributes, for some reason they are still STR based)</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">7th) Change all the fighter flavor text to the stuff you wrote for the Fencer </span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">These changes will make a solid Swashbuckler in the vein you’re looking for. However if this still isn’t enough you can still add in a few Ranger Exploits changed to reflex the DEX and CHA attributes and the single weapon focus. This will certainly result in power creep, but should be kept reasonably under control if you limit it to the guidelines set by the Multi-Class Feats (aka no more than one ranger exploit per category At-Will/ Encounter/Daily/Utility). </span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">Creating the Two-Weapon Fighter/Dervish is even easier. Simply give the Ranger class the same treatment, minus steps 4 and 5. The two-weapon fighter won’t have the same stickiness of the Swashbuckler, but I honestly don’t think they should from a flavor or a mechanics point of view. The two-weapon fighter is sacrificing some hit points and challenge feature for a lot more damage. However the simple change of STR -> DEX will definitely make for a higher AC than your normal two-weapon fighting ranger (aka power creep). Again you can convert some fighter exploits (following the same guidelines) but in this case I don’t think it will be as much of a problem. Secondly if you really feel the need for more defender type qualities take the Pathfinder Paragon class (rewriting the flavor of course) it brings plenty of it, despite the name. I don’t know if this is the type of feedback you were looking for, but it is what it is.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px">By the way I really do like the Blade Bravado and Blademaster classes, they defiantly give the fighter a very unique feel. And balance wise they’re on par with the more powerful WotC Paragon Classes. It’s just so much easier to balance a Paragon class than an entire base class, and in the end it changes your character’s flavor almost as much.</span></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="cooperflood, post: 4359390, member: 55481"] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]I like the general idea of what you’re trying to do and love the formatting and flavor text; however your class represents a significant amount of power creep. You claim to be trying to create a hybrid class, but in the end you gave the class the best of both worlds; great Defender abilities and great Striker Abilities. You took next to no abilities away from the Fighter and just added lots of Ranger abilities and powers to the Fighter concept.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]One of your primary concerns seems to be the lack of AC in a light armor class. There is no need for the +3 to AC you gave them under Fencer Combat Talent. You are aware that a DEX or INT based character in Hide will have nearly the same AC as a character in Plate Armor (assuming all else is equal). There is a thread on the Wizards forum that explores the maximum Defense scores that covers this pretty well, but their forums seem down at this time. A Character with a starting DEX of 20 in Hide ends up with an AC of 35 at level 30 (Level-15, Hide-5, DEX-8, Enhancement-6) while a character in Plate ends up with an AC of 35 at level 30 (Level-15, Plate 14, Enhancement-6). Assuming you were actually trying to get the highest AC possible I’m pretty sure (but not 100%) that Hide would be your choice (Pit Fighter +1, Demigod +1, Heavy Shield +2, and Shield Specialization or Armor Mastery +1 for a Theoretical Cap of 40). Add of course you get this high AC without the penalties that come from Heavy Armor.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]I think a simpler way to accomplish the class your after is to take the Fighter class and make a few simple changes.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]1st) Switch any reference of STR with DEX and vice versa.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]2nd) Switch any reference of WIS with CHA and vice versa.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]3rd) Give them four skills and add Acrobatics, Bluff, and Diplomacy to the Skill List[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]4th) Change Bonuses to Defense to: Fortitude +1, Reflex +1[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]5th) Remove Chainmail, Scale, and Heavy Shield from the Armor Proficiencies[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]6th) Add all those new Fencer feats and Paragon paths (Need to change Attributes, for some reason they are still STR based)[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]7th) Change all the fighter flavor text to the stuff you wrote for the Fencer [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]These changes will make a solid Swashbuckler in the vein you’re looking for. However if this still isn’t enough you can still add in a few Ranger Exploits changed to reflex the DEX and CHA attributes and the single weapon focus. This will certainly result in power creep, but should be kept reasonably under control if you limit it to the guidelines set by the Multi-Class Feats (aka no more than one ranger exploit per category At-Will/ Encounter/Daily/Utility). [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Creating the Two-Weapon Fighter/Dervish is even easier. Simply give the Ranger class the same treatment, minus steps 4 and 5. The two-weapon fighter won’t have the same stickiness of the Swashbuckler, but I honestly don’t think they should from a flavor or a mechanics point of view. The two-weapon fighter is sacrificing some hit points and challenge feature for a lot more damage. However the simple change of STR -> DEX will definitely make for a higher AC than your normal two-weapon fighting ranger (aka power creep). Again you can convert some fighter exploits (following the same guidelines) but in this case I don’t think it will be as much of a problem. Secondly if you really feel the need for more defender type qualities take the Pathfinder Paragon class (rewriting the flavor of course) it brings plenty of it, despite the name. I don’t know if this is the type of feedback you were looking for, but it is what it is.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=white][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]By the way I really do like the Blade Bravado and Blademaster classes, they defiantly give the fighter a very unique feel. And balance wise they’re on par with the more powerful WotC Paragon Classes. It’s just so much easier to balance a Paragon class than an entire base class, and in the end it changes your character’s flavor almost as much.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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