Feral Ranger... need adjusting

[Ferrix]

Okay, I figure this might as well be house rules, cause it basically is gonna end up that way...

I'm popping into a PbP with theJester and I'm hoping to play a Riddick-like character and was hoping to be a feral human with 12 levels of ranger, however the dilemma is twofold, thus: theJester figures the feral template is too strong for a +1 LA (slightly understandable) so I'm trying to figure out a way to chink it down a little bit to put it at +1 LA, the second thing is this, I want to ditch the ranger's spellcasting and animal companion and pick up some slightly animalistic traits to go with the character concept. These two things I'm in a bind over and therefore I ask for some aid in this venture (cause the character idea is way too freaking cool to abandon).

Comment on the Feral template, a bunch of people over on Wizards have done some comparisons and usually the feral template as it is written in SS is worth about 1.5 levels or so, two levels sometimes seeming too much, one level seeming like too little. I'm hoping for a straighter balance than the way most LA's work out always favoring the core races (which bugs the hell out of me) and the biggest controversy was normally the fast healing.

Feral-lite Template (+1 LA)
Type: changed to monstrous humanoid
Speed: land speed +10
AC: +3 natural armor
Attacks: gains two claw or slam attacks dealing 1d6 damage
Special Attacks: none
Special Qualities: darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision, scent*
Abilities: +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -4 Int, +2 Wis
Feats: faster healing (from masters of the wild)
Skills: *+4 bonus to Survival checks when tracking by scent

reasonings: i wanted to keep fast healing in there but I don't know if theJester considers it a bit too much for a player character so i just added the faster healing feat from masters of the wild, gave the template a more sensory orientation (low-light and scent), dropped the special attacks, dropped the damage on the natural attacks and dropped the natural armor bonus to +3. The ability adjustments and speed increase are the same. What say you?

Ranger variant
Lose animal companion (not a very good ability btw since it's 1/2 class level)
Lose spellcasting

Now the spell-less ranger from CW gives a +10 to speed, a stat boost ability 1/day, the ability to remove disease or neutralize poison 1/day, and freedom of movement 1/day at the levels (6, 11, 13 and 16 respectively). They sort of fit, but I'm trying to think if anything else would fit better for the character type. And that doesn't even get into the realm of ditching the animal companion.

Suggestions?

 

[Arkhandus]

Your altered Feral template is too good for only +1 LA I think, I would reduce the Strength bonus to +2 and remove the Wisdom bonus. Also remove one of the sensory abilities perhaps, and maybe reduce the Natural Armor to +2.

As for your Ranger, ignore the Complete Warrior stuff for it if it's not what you're going for. In exchange for spellcasting, give them a bonus feat of choice from the Fighter list (excepting Fighter-only feats) at each level that they would normally have gained access to a new spell level. Maybe also give them a +5 foot speed increase from Fast Movement (with same limitations as the Barbarian's ability) at each level where the Ranger would have otherwise gained a base of two spells per day from a given spell level. Replacing the animal companion, boost the Ranger's hit die to a d10 perhaps, or give them a few minor Druid and Barbarian abilities over time, like Rage 1/day at 4th, Trackless Step at 9th, Rage 2/day at 12th, and Venom Immunity at 18th.

 

[Ferrix]

Interesting idea for one of the animalistic things:

Beast Tongue - able to communicate with animals as per speak w/animals

...

I sort of like the ideas you gave for replacing spellcasting, but the ideas for replacing the animal companion was pretty cool. I think a minor ability to rage would definately make the character concept.

 

[Khaalis]

I would further trim...

Feral-lite Template (+1 LA)
Type: changed to monstrous humanoid
Attacks: gains two claw attacks dealing 1d6 damage
Special Qualities: low-light vision, scent*, Fast Healing 1, Natural Armor +2
Abilities: +2 Str, +2 Con, -4 Int, -2 Cha
Skills: *+4 bonus to Survival checks when tracking by scent

I'll coment on the Ranger when I get some books in front of me.

 

[Ferrix]

I would further trim...

Feral-lite Template (+1 LA)
Type: changed to monstrous humanoid
Attacks: gains two claw attacks dealing 1d6 damage
Special Qualities: low-light vision, scent*, Fast Healing 1, Natural Armor +2
Abilities: +2 Str, +2 Con, -4 Int, -2 Cha
Skills: *+4 bonus to Survival checks when tracking by scent

I'll coment on the Ranger when I get some books in front of me.

Actual fast healing is far more powerful than the feat from masters of the wild which just increases your natural healing rate per day. You'd heal 10 points per minute, 600 points per hour, 14400 points per day, compared to the feat which lets you heal 1 point per level per day with strenuous activity, 1.5 points per level per day with light activity, 2 points per level per day with complete bed rest, and double those with long term care from a heal check.

Darkvision was one of the primary points for even bothering with the feral template thus removing it defeats the purpose.

The standard feral template does not get a penalty to charisma, thus I'd rather not add something that wasn't a penalty in the first place. The stats were fine as is, there is a total of a +2 positive increase to attributes (+4 str/-4 int, +2 con/-2 dex, +2 wis), an aasimar gets a +4 positive increase to attributes (+2 wis, +2 cha).

 

[the Jester]

Hmmm...

Some thoughts so far:

I'd still assign both modified Feral versions a +2 LA as they are above. Without spending a ton of time mulling it over, here's what I see as a +1 LA feral template that keeps darkvision:

Type: Changes to monstrous humanoid.

AC: Natural armor bonus changes to +2 or current, whichever is better.

Attacks: A feral creature gains two claw attacks if it did not already have them. These claws are primary natural weapons, and do 1d4 points of damage for a Medium creature (scaling up or down with size accordingly).

Special Qualities: The feral creature gain darkvision 60'.

Abilities: Str +2, Dex -2, Con +2, Int -4, Wis +2.

Feats: Gain Faster Healing as a bonus feat.

***

Wow, by the book feral only gets +1 LA?? Yet the CR adjustment is as high as +4.... hmph. Someone wasn't payin' attention- the stuff a feral creature gets is great for a character who lasts more than one encounter, especially the fast healing.

As to fiddling with the ranger, I'm not sure how I'd go about that- kinda depends on what sort of traits you have in mind for your animalistic traits.

Actually, my personal favorite idea is to swap out ranger stuff for feral template stuff; that way you don't have to mess with a LA. Lessee...

Level--Drop/Gain
4-- Drop Animal Companion and 1st level spells; gain natural armor +1, +10' enhancement bonus to land speed and two claw attacks (1d4 damage for medium character)

6-- Gain darkvision 60'

7-- Claw attack damage increases to 1d6 for medium character

8-- Drop 2nd level spells; gain natural armor +2 and improved grab

9-- Gain darkvision 90'

10-- Gain natural armor +3

11-- Drop 3rd level spells; claw attack now deals base 1d8 damage; gain pounce

12-- Gain natural armor +4, darkvision 120'

14-- Drop 4th level spells; gain natural armor +5 and rake ability

16-- Gain natural armor +6 and fast healing 1

17-- Gain rend ability

18-- Gain fast healing 2

20-- Type changes to monstrous humanoid, gain fast healing 5



I'm not sure if it's balanced- I pretty much just threw that together- but it's a start.

Hmm, although there are no ability adjustments in there- now that would definitely be over the top. Maybe with 4 skill points per level, though....?

Anyway, as I said, just some thoughts/ideas- I'm definitely open to suggestions myself.

 

[Ferrix]

Hmmm...

Some thoughts so far:

I'd still assign both modified Feral versions a +2 LA as they are above. Without spending a ton of time mulling it over, here's what I see as a +1 LA feral template that keeps darkvision:

Type: Changes to monstrous humanoid.

AC: Natural armor bonus changes to +2 or current, whichever is better.

Attacks: A feral creature gains two claw attacks if it did not already have them. These claws are primary natural weapons, and do 1d4 points of damage for a Medium creature (scaling up or down with size accordingly).

Special Qualities: The feral creature gain darkvision 60'.

Abilities: Str +2, Dex -2, Con +2, Int -4, Wis +2.

Feats: Gain Faster Healing as a bonus feat.

***

Wow, by the book feral only gets +1 LA?? Yet the CR adjustment is as high as +4.... hmph. Someone wasn't payin' attention- the stuff a feral creature gets is great for a character who lasts more than one encounter, especially the fast healing.

As to fiddling with the ranger, I'm not sure how I'd go about that- kinda depends on what sort of traits you have in mind for your animalistic traits.

Actually, my personal favorite idea is to swap out ranger stuff for feral template stuff; that way you don't have to mess with a LA. Lessee...

Level--Drop/Gain
4-- Drop Animal Companion and 1st level spells; gain natural armor +1, +10' enhancement bonus to land speed and two claw attacks (1d4 damage for medium character)

6-- Gain darkvision 60'

7-- Claw attack damage increases to 1d6 for medium character

8-- Drop 2nd level spells; gain natural armor +2 and improved grab

9-- Gain darkvision 90'

10-- Gain natural armor +3

11-- Drop 3rd level spells; claw attack now deals base 1d8 damage; gain pounce

12-- Gain natural armor +4, darkvision 120'

14-- Drop 4th level spells; gain natural armor +5 and rake ability

16-- Gain natural armor +6 and fast healing 1

17-- Gain rend ability

18-- Gain fast healing 2

20-- Type changes to monstrous humanoid, gain fast healing 5



I'm not sure if it's balanced- I pretty much just threw that together- but it's a start.

Hmm, although there are no ability adjustments in there- now that would definitely be over the top. Maybe with 4 skill points per level, though....?

Anyway, as I said, just some thoughts/ideas- I'm definitely open to suggestions myself.

Well the way I was arranging my stats, the attribute bonuses/penalties except for the Wis bonus were going to cancel entirely. My 18 was going into Int to keep me from feeling like a walking rock, my 14 into Str. I can deal without any of the stat bonuses, I think I like it better that way.

I don't mind the progression you listed to replace the animal companion and spellcasting, pity fast healing, even fast healing 1 doesn't come into the equation until level 16, and then it jumps to 2 at 18 and sky rockets to 5 at level 20, a more spread out progression would make me happier but that's about it. Something like level 12 fast healing 1, level 14 fast healing 2, level 16 fast healing 3, level 18 fast healing 4, level 20 fast healing 5 or something like that. I think I'll just go with your progression, if you'd be up for shifting around the fast healing progression that'd be great but if you don't want to, can we add in the faster healing feat earlier on to be replaced when you get fast healing for real?

Also, is the Elusive Target feat open game?

 

[the Jester]

I don't mind the progression you listed to replace the animal companion and spellcasting, pity fast healing, even fast healing 1 doesn't come into the equation until level 16, and then it jumps to 2 at 18 and sky rockets to 5 at level 20, a more spread out progression would make me happier but that's about it. Something like level 12 fast healing 1, level 14 fast healing 2, level 16 fast healing 3, level 18 fast healing 4, level 20 fast healing 5 or something like that. I think I'll just go with your progression, if you'd be up for shifting around the fast healing progression that'd be great but if you don't want to, can we add in the faster healing feat earlier on to be replaced when you get fast healing for real?

OK, how about replace Endurance with Faster Healing at 3rd level?

 

[Ferrix]

OK, how about replace Endurance with Faster Healing at 3rd level?

Sure