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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mouseferatu" data-source="post: 5209638" data-attributes="member: 1288">Just sort of thinking out loud here, and I haven't thought through the ramifications of this yet...But one way of making this easier might be completely removing non-condition penalties. (I'm not talking about house rules for 4E here--this is, as someone else said, "major surgery"--but more possible ideas for streamlining in future similar editions.) Here's what I mean:There are still penalties that exist as parts of conditions (i.e. the -2 to attack from being marked). But all other penalties are instead transformed into bonuses. For instance, rather than an attack power saying "and the target takes a -2 to Will defense until the end of your next turn," it would instead say "you and your allies gain a +2 to attacks against the target's Will defense until the end of your next turn."Okay, that sounds like mathematically the same thing, right? Except that it puts the fiddly bonus in the hands of the player to track, rather than the DM, which can help reduce the "processor" load on the DM.It also helps us standardize things. Once we do that, we can then establish some blanket rules:*All power-granted bonuses now fall into one of three categories:1) Next attack only.2) Until end of bonus-provider's next turn.3) Until end of encounter.*All conditions now also fall into one of three categories:1) Until end of condition-bestower's next turn.2) Until save.3) Until end of encounter.All that said, if we want to make even more changes...We could potentially--and again, I'm just theorizing, and have not gone back looking for balance issues--eliminate "until end of next turn" conditions and replace them with a second category of saving throw.*At-will powers: Do not bestow conditions (other than prone, perhaps).*Encounter powers (and dailies on a miss): Bestow condition (easy save ends).*Daily powers: Bestow condition (standard save ends).An "easy save" could either require a lower difficulty than the standard 10, or could enable the creature to roll twice and take the higher result.This makes battles a little more swingy, since--depending on luck--it's vaguely possible for these effects to last longer than one round. But odds are that most of the time, they won't. Of course, it also means that if the creature saves, the effect doesn't even last through the attacker's next turn, but if the system's designed that way from the word go, and if the bonuses still last until the attacker's next turn (as described above), it should be workable.Of course, this does add extra rolls to the game, which could slow things down, and there's still some bookkeeping involved, in that the DM has to keep track of which saves are easy and which are standard. But it might prove easier that tracking multiple different durations (end of attacker's turn, end of target's turn, or save ends).(Again, this is all spitballing/theorizing. Feel free to poke holes in it and tear it apart. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />)</blockquote>

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