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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5209710" data-attributes="member: 2011">Good point. I concede that this is a flaw in my suggestion. That's why we discuss this type of thing.Not every PC is a Psion, a Seeker, or an Invoker. Below level 17, there are 10 such At Will powers. Warden's Grasp, Executioner's Noose, Avenging Shackles, Grasping Claws, Grasping Shards, Grappling Spirits, Weight of Earth, Ray of Frost, Force Hammer, and Force Grasp.Only 2 of them are area powers, 8 are single target. So that really restricts class in order to accomplish this beyond one potential foe per round. And, not all DMs allow Dragon Magazine and/or PHB3 in their games. Half of these powers come from those sources.There are 43 Encounter powers that slow, but it's hard to spam one or two Encounter powers over an entire Encounter.The tactic just seems difficult to achieve effectively without certain specialized class builds. And, it achieves in reverse what you are arguing for. If the 5 ranged PCs are throwing out a bunch of At Will Slowed powers, then they aren't using their more fun Encounter powers.What's wrong with a magical throwing axe or javelin (or even a Trident for more damage, but less range) and Melee Training?Chaladins have a lot of great features (decent damage, great AC, healing, helping out fellow PCs). Ranged attacking isn't one of them. To do a decent ranged attack, the player of a Chaladin PC has to work at it a bit.That's not unreasonable.And Chaladins can get Encounter powers like Dazzling Flair or Beckon Foe.But, picking a class that has few ranged attacks as one of their weaknesses and saying that Slowed is strong because that class exists is a bit misleading.Parties typically don't consist of 5 Chaladins.People throw that "if the PC is impeded, the player isn't having fun" idea around a lot. I personally think that this idea is horse pucky.If the PC cannot do any actions for several rounds like Stunned, sure, I buy it. Being unable to do any actions for multiple rounds sucks.But, not if the PC is just hindered in some minor way. That's a player entitlement fun argument that just doesn't hold water for most mature players.The game is not challenging and fun if the PCs are not challenged.Eight year olds think that the game is not fun if something hindering happens to their PC and they cannot use their most effective attack on the following round. Most adults do not. They just accept bad things happening to their PC as part and parcel of playing the game.I have a player whose Swordmage purposely gets into the face of foes that Daze and Stun. Why? Because he thinks it's his job to suck up attacks and protect the rest of the party from debilitating conditions. That player seems to have a lot of fun playing. It's not just about "how much damage can my PC do this round?".</blockquote>

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