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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5899486" data-attributes="member: 92511">Right. Is a "Barbarian" class Conan or Beowulf...or Riverwind? I would argue it is all three. Just as easily as I could argue Riverwind is a Ranger (his class in the DL modules) or Beowulf is a Fighter, instead. Is Gandalf (arguably a "Merlin" character for Middle-earth) or Merlin, himself, a wizard or a druid?...or given Merlin's mythological parentage, is Merlin a tiefling ("a man of no mortal father")?! Or Gandlaf an Aasimar (if not a full outsider/angel guy?) It could very easily be both...all.Is Harry Potter a "wizard" or a "sorcerer" (in 3/4e terms) or a "warlock/shaman"...naturally gifted/capable but completely devoid of power if he doesn't have his wand [totem/implement] with him? Is the answer all? Some? None of the above? He's a wizard in the world of Harry Potter. In 1e D&D, he'da been dead a loooong time ago.Defining by archetype for a class...which I am ALL for, btw!...is highly subjective. It's based on age, gender, system played, genre appreciated, and a slew of other things/cultural considerations, I would venture to say.Your reference to Gauntlet, is a prime example. I LOVED that game! Remember it fondly. And it had, for me, several archetypes of the D&D (not just "fantasy") genre. The Warrior, the "Elf", the "Valikerie" [complete with chainmail bikini, of course]. For some, Buffy might optimize "Vampire hunter/slayer"...others it's Van Helsing...or even Giles.Is a Vampire Nosferatu? Dracula? Strahd? Angel or Edward Cullen? Is a werewolf a mindless ravenous killing machine dependent on the phases of the moon or a shapeshifter who has total control of their mind and state? [not at ALL advocating Vampires or werewolves as a "class"! Gods no no nonononono!]The trick is not, I think, what's an archetype [now] or what has been...but WHERE you draw that line. It is a tricky proposition that is sure to leave some of any age, genre, system played, wanting more or disappointed.That said...it MUST be done. The line has to happen somewhere. Hundreds of various classes is simply unaccecptable and unrealistic to expect players to have a grasp of or expect a DM to allow.Start with the "strongest"/most mythological and literary known ones...add in the "weaker"/less known ones...then, no doubt, add in the ones that are marginalized/certain genre specific/"prestige classes." Avengers is currently, or soon will be, opening in the US. It's already grossed...I dunno how many millions overseas. Will we suddenly see an influx of "Hawkeye" rangers and "Captain America" paladins or hammer throwing super-strong "Thor" barbarians?"5e needs shield throwing rules! I need a FEAT to bound my shield offa stuff!! I took the Shield Basher theme[/maneuver/whatever] I should be able to do like he does in the movie!""Yeah! Why can't I shot twenty arrows in a round whilst falling off of a building?!"Does popularity = "archetype"?My answer is "no."But in this world of immediate gratification and, seeming, lack of creativity, imagination and lack of/inability for immersion in a game world, I am sure many many folks would answer an enthusiastic and highly affronted, "YES!"As Boarstorm says, D&D is "big enough" to handle a wide range of archetypes...Yes. It is. But that capacity is not infinite! Nor does it mean that D&D should allow for anything you can possibly conceive. If that were the case, then there would be no other RPGs that accommodate those choices/other genres.D&D is not Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Harry Potter, Final Fantasy, Call of Cthulu, Marvel Superheroes or any slue of sci-fi games/settings.And in this humble ENworlder's opinion, it has no mandate to have to try to be.Below is a link to a posting I did...oooo...long time ago...about various race archetypes. It is, in parts, revealing of my own homebrewed campaign setting of Orea and others of certain older system tropes (like halflings not being able to be paladins). But all in all, I think it is a good batch of solid DUNGEONS & DRAGONS archetypes (for Elves and dwarves, specifically. I have others for other races. Never did one for humans...maybe later in this thread.)[EDIT: Fixed the link. Dunno how THAT hoppuned!/EDIT][EDIT2: OK. I dunno what's going on or why this links to a response to this page...but just copipasta the url below if you'd care to see them. There's a link to some images in there, as well./EDIT2]<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5899425" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/295185-racial-archetypes-elf-dwarf.html</a>--SD</blockquote>

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