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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5899574" data-attributes="member: 92511">True dat. I have no doubt it was inspired by the Thor comics. Hey, it's just a damn cool magic item! But that doesn't mean the game has to have rules for all of these things, that strike our fancy, the moment they become popular culture. If I'm not mistaken, the Thor comics came out...in the sixties?...a good bet it had some impact on the game in 1974.I too have very fond memories of "borrowing" class, race and spells/powers/magic item ideas from stuff I saw (comics, cartoons, movies, dramas, anything really) when I was a teenager.Evil-Lyn's scepter (turned staff -waaaay cooler!- in the 2002 version), from MotU, has been the "Sceptre of Xxax" for many many years in my game world!(Not that we had this in my game) But how many people had Xena's throwy circular bladed thing that came back to you...without slicing off all of your fingers?Some of them worked..some of them were sorely overpowered...or didn't work, for D&D, as "cool" as they were in the original work. C'est la guerre.If you read the post, then you know that it was a continuation of the following thought...as opposed to the parsed down individual quote you posted.THAT'S what it "has to do with anything" as opposed to the odd, out of context, statement you took it as.I don't believe, anywhere in my post, I claimed it was.I have no qualm with it being "informed" by such. But that does not an "archetype" make.Again, I do not believe it should, either. I don't think I said this. But "allowing for everything fantasy" of the passed 40 years is a completely unrealistic expectation.I would totally expect to see, in 5e, a substitute or optional magic system that simulates the world of Harry Potter. I would expect to see a series of themes or feats that mimic Final Fantasy's feats of martial prowess. Or WoW's area spells. Pirates of the Caribbean trotting and sword-fighting along spars. Or [unfortunately, imho] "shiny happy" Twilight vampires and sapient werewolves holding hands.But those are not mythological or literary archetypes for D&D. They are popular! Yes. They are "fantasy"...arguably [in the sense that Twilight is "modern fantasy" and Pirates of the Caribbean is "historic fantasy"], Yes.But they are not D&D archetypes. No doubt D&D had some persuasion over them, as much as any other mythology/folk tales/previous literature or cultural history. But, they are/can be adopted. They can be done! In my fantasy world of 5e D&D, I would expect and hope to see a good 12-15 archetypal classes available from day one...maybe a few variants in an appendix (though with what we know about Themes, it seems variants might be all, or mostly, taken care of).Now, if that is not enough for you or your gaming group, I fully expect that what IS presented has enough bits n' pieces for you to cobble together whatever you want. There's nothing wrong with that!But a PHB trying to offer class archetypes in a limited page count...what?....20 enough? 40? 100 classes to cover everything that's happened in the Fantasy genre for the passed 40 years of books, tv and movies?!No, that is not necessary, let alone "possible". Those are not necessary for D&D to be D&D! I also expect, that through Themes, Backgrounds and modular options, you should be able to have any and everything you feel is a valid archetype...just as I expect it will do the same for me.S'all good in duh D&D hood, my friend.--SD</blockquote>

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