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[FFG] Legendary Class Design Contest!
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<blockquote data-quote="Khur" data-source="post: 267709" data-attributes="member: 5583"><p><strong>Half the batch critiqued ... phew!</strong></p><p></p><p>First off, seriously reading submissions is hard work. I don't envy those guys a WotC sifting thropught the campaign submissions.</p><p></p><p>I’m glad we have a chance to see everyone’s great work. Doing my duty to my fellow competitors, here’s my take on the first half of the entries. All of my advice is kinda off-the-cuff, so take it as you wish. I liked everyone’s stuff and I tried to be constructive with any criticism.</p><p></p><p>Here goes:</p><p></p><p><strong>Bearer of the World’s Pain</strong> – I like it when a life path has solid philosophy, but why isn’t there an alignment restriction on this class (Lawful Good)? Could this class be one dedicated to a god of martyrs of suffering (like Ilmater in FR)? I think that the quest needs to be harder and that there should be another. The powers are interesting, but some are a bit restrictive and others seem too powerful. Consider No More Shall Suffer as the ability to use finger of death on evil beings once per being with a Save DC of 10 plus the spell level (7) plus the Cha modifier of the Bearer plus the power level. If the being so targeted makes the saving throw, the Bearer cannot target that being with the effect ever again. I must say that The Last Gift power rocks! It conjures images of real-world saints, especially Buddha!</p><p></p><p><strong>Blade of God</strong> – I like the idea, but the requirements seem a bit steep at first glance and I disfavor the Str requirement. The player would have to be very careful and know very early that the legendary class was the goal sought. I do like the secondary implication of the character being a lawful good fighter until level 4 (Weapon Specialization) and then being inducted into a holy order (Paladin for Knowledge (religion) and turn undead probably, as a cleric would have to be 11th level (and Ftr 4) to meet the BAB requirement). The second quest is a bit hokey and doesn’t allow for campaign worlds in which deities have no avatar—most published avatars would kill a high-level character in a few rounds. The powers are very good, excepting Awareness of God which could just be Blindsight 10’ per power level, plus detect good or evil (as appropriate) at will. </p><p></p><p>The <strong>Brawler</strong> is hilarious! I hope it was meant to be funny – a “legendary” bar-fighter. *har, har * The only beefs I have with this guy is that his Thick Blood doesn’t seem so thick. A maximum +5 to Fort saves versus mundane poison isn’t so much. Shrug Off Blows is way too powerful – maybe multiply the subdual damage healed per hour by the power level +1.Additionally the character gets +1 to saves to resist stunning per power level and gets a Fortitude save to resist being Clobbered. For example, Gurlag (Ftr10/Brawler 4) gains Shrug Off Blows at 4th-level Brawler. Instead of 14 points of subdual damage per hour, he heals 70! Alternately, allow the character to ignore a number of points of subdual damage per round equal to his power level x his con mod.</p><p></p><p>The <strong>Warrior of the Broken Wake</strong> should be called the <em> Devastator</em>! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> I like this class because it’s fun, especially for those who revel in the sheer damage their character can cause (munchkins). I don’t like the fact that the class is aimed at axe wielders when many other weapons are suited to breaking. The powers, for the most part seem well balanced. Would Spell Cutting apply against rays? Maybe Sever Life should apply a bonus per power level to the DC of the Fortitude saving throw requires by the Death from Massive Damage variant. (The variant itself is not well thought-out IMO.)</p><p></p><p>The <strong>Deadeye Archer</strong> is nice. I like all of the abilities, but some of them don’t seem to have power levels related to their usage (Distant Strike). Also, Barrage seems too powerful. Perhaps the archer should be limited to one or two such attacks per power level? I like that the archer can create magical arrows and bows, but perhaps the ability should be more clearly defined in terms of magical ability and its relation to legendary power level. I see it as the master breathing life into created items ... cool!</p><p></p><p>The <strong>Elf Lord</strong> is a good class with a mundane name … though I can’t think of a better one off hand. Reveal His Glory is a great ability, but clearly spell-like or supernatural, not extraordinary. A few of the other abilities seem to fall into this category (i.e. should be subject to antimagic). The Immortality level 5 ability suggests that the Elf Lord no longer suffers aging penalties. Other immortal elf lords do? That’s kinda lame—a deal breaker if you ask me. “Yes Lanthala, you will be immortal, but after 350 years, you’ll be bent and decrepit … good luck!” I also think their power against death magic should be greater. Like maybe +2 versus death effects per power level and the death ward ability cast as a druid of the characters total character level or a 9th-level druid + one caster level per power level.</p><p></p><p>The <strong>Maitre d’Escrime</strong> is good for swashbuckling campaigns and one of my favorites presented here. I didn’t get the last paragraph in the quests section though. The great thing about this class is it shows the author has some fencing knowledge. I didn’t see the Weapon and Armor proficiency section in this class, but would assume that such a character must have to use light armor. I also think the duration for Extraordinary Expertise should be bumped up a bit and the language of the text should inform the reader that the Maitre need not use these rounds in succession. I also think that Dedicated Students and Razor-edged Reactions should be more powerful. Perhaps Razor-edged reactions should give a character a bonus much like Evasion or Uncanny Dodge. Dedicated students should, perhaps, be related to the Leadership feat. Are the students replaced if one is slain or otherwise removed from play?</p><p></p><p>The <strong>Dwarven Forgemaster</strong> is another favorite of mine … but I like dwarves … especially in leather, but that’s another story … ahem. I think the quests are a bit too easy. What about the items being made of material mined from an enemy stronghold? I like almost all of this classes abilities, they’re just good ideas. Some of the abilities, while still great ideas, have no relation to power level (Unforge, Mystic Forge Hammer, Tireless Champion). The Dwarven Hero ability is related to power level, but only marginally—maybe all of the bonuses could be related somehow. Elemental companions can’t be replaced so this power probably won’t be taken by anyone … perhaps replaced after a year and a day like familiars would suit best.</p><p></p><p>I enjoyed the <strong>Grandmaster of the Clouds</strong>—another favorite. I wondered why the requirements list as special abilities that have names in the monk class (Leap of the Clouds = leap unrestricted by height and unarmored speed = double the move of a normal creature…)? The quests were truly cool and the multiclassing note was a great call. The grandmaster’s powers a great too. Walk on the clouds should be cast as a cleric of some level, not such a limited duration (especially if ones wants to simulate Crouching Marmot, Hidden Billy Goat). Again, some of the abilities were not related to power level (Move with Grace, Move Without Boundaries, and etc.). I think Blink of an Eye should just go ahead and be once per day per power level, using dimension door as the base spell.</p><p></p><p><strong>True King</strong> – good idea! This class has a lot of campaign value, but the qualifications are a bit too easy. The quests are what make it shine, classic but maybe a bit cliché—too many fantasy stories hinge on the idea of a fabled king. The powers seem good, but some are too ill defined, while others have not relation to the level at which they are chosen (Mighty Blow). Passionate Rhetoric is good in theory bur the duration is questionable. What does “battle” mean in this context? Heirloom is impressive, but from where do these items come? I also don’t totally understand Natural Leader (mostly the “bumped” off part and how it jives with the example you gave).</p><p></p><p>Well, that’s all for tonight. I’ll give the rest a read on the morrow. I hope you all enjoy reading these. Maybe we could do a little netbook here on EN World after the contest. You know, edit these and put ‘em together with typeset pages and illustrations. Maybe the pros could give us some help … and I’d do the design and some of the drawings if everyone were game. I'll let everyone see my website after the contest 'cause I don't want anyone to know which entry is mine yet.</p><p></p><p>Just an idea.</p><p></p><p>Cheers!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Khur, post: 267709, member: 5583"] [b]Half the batch critiqued ... phew![/b] First off, seriously reading submissions is hard work. I don't envy those guys a WotC sifting thropught the campaign submissions. I’m glad we have a chance to see everyone’s great work. Doing my duty to my fellow competitors, here’s my take on the first half of the entries. All of my advice is kinda off-the-cuff, so take it as you wish. I liked everyone’s stuff and I tried to be constructive with any criticism. Here goes: [B]Bearer of the World’s Pain[/B] – I like it when a life path has solid philosophy, but why isn’t there an alignment restriction on this class (Lawful Good)? Could this class be one dedicated to a god of martyrs of suffering (like Ilmater in FR)? I think that the quest needs to be harder and that there should be another. The powers are interesting, but some are a bit restrictive and others seem too powerful. Consider No More Shall Suffer as the ability to use finger of death on evil beings once per being with a Save DC of 10 plus the spell level (7) plus the Cha modifier of the Bearer plus the power level. If the being so targeted makes the saving throw, the Bearer cannot target that being with the effect ever again. I must say that The Last Gift power rocks! It conjures images of real-world saints, especially Buddha! [B]Blade of God[/B] – I like the idea, but the requirements seem a bit steep at first glance and I disfavor the Str requirement. The player would have to be very careful and know very early that the legendary class was the goal sought. I do like the secondary implication of the character being a lawful good fighter until level 4 (Weapon Specialization) and then being inducted into a holy order (Paladin for Knowledge (religion) and turn undead probably, as a cleric would have to be 11th level (and Ftr 4) to meet the BAB requirement). The second quest is a bit hokey and doesn’t allow for campaign worlds in which deities have no avatar—most published avatars would kill a high-level character in a few rounds. The powers are very good, excepting Awareness of God which could just be Blindsight 10’ per power level, plus detect good or evil (as appropriate) at will. The [B]Brawler[/B] is hilarious! I hope it was meant to be funny – a “legendary” bar-fighter. *har, har * The only beefs I have with this guy is that his Thick Blood doesn’t seem so thick. A maximum +5 to Fort saves versus mundane poison isn’t so much. Shrug Off Blows is way too powerful – maybe multiply the subdual damage healed per hour by the power level +1.Additionally the character gets +1 to saves to resist stunning per power level and gets a Fortitude save to resist being Clobbered. For example, Gurlag (Ftr10/Brawler 4) gains Shrug Off Blows at 4th-level Brawler. Instead of 14 points of subdual damage per hour, he heals 70! Alternately, allow the character to ignore a number of points of subdual damage per round equal to his power level x his con mod. The [B]Warrior of the Broken Wake[/B] should be called the [I] Devastator[/I]! :p I like this class because it’s fun, especially for those who revel in the sheer damage their character can cause (munchkins). I don’t like the fact that the class is aimed at axe wielders when many other weapons are suited to breaking. The powers, for the most part seem well balanced. Would Spell Cutting apply against rays? Maybe Sever Life should apply a bonus per power level to the DC of the Fortitude saving throw requires by the Death from Massive Damage variant. (The variant itself is not well thought-out IMO.) The [B]Deadeye Archer[/B] is nice. I like all of the abilities, but some of them don’t seem to have power levels related to their usage (Distant Strike). Also, Barrage seems too powerful. Perhaps the archer should be limited to one or two such attacks per power level? I like that the archer can create magical arrows and bows, but perhaps the ability should be more clearly defined in terms of magical ability and its relation to legendary power level. I see it as the master breathing life into created items ... cool! The [B]Elf Lord[/B] is a good class with a mundane name … though I can’t think of a better one off hand. Reveal His Glory is a great ability, but clearly spell-like or supernatural, not extraordinary. A few of the other abilities seem to fall into this category (i.e. should be subject to antimagic). The Immortality level 5 ability suggests that the Elf Lord no longer suffers aging penalties. Other immortal elf lords do? That’s kinda lame—a deal breaker if you ask me. “Yes Lanthala, you will be immortal, but after 350 years, you’ll be bent and decrepit … good luck!” I also think their power against death magic should be greater. Like maybe +2 versus death effects per power level and the death ward ability cast as a druid of the characters total character level or a 9th-level druid + one caster level per power level. The [B]Maitre d’Escrime[/B] is good for swashbuckling campaigns and one of my favorites presented here. I didn’t get the last paragraph in the quests section though. The great thing about this class is it shows the author has some fencing knowledge. I didn’t see the Weapon and Armor proficiency section in this class, but would assume that such a character must have to use light armor. I also think the duration for Extraordinary Expertise should be bumped up a bit and the language of the text should inform the reader that the Maitre need not use these rounds in succession. I also think that Dedicated Students and Razor-edged Reactions should be more powerful. Perhaps Razor-edged reactions should give a character a bonus much like Evasion or Uncanny Dodge. Dedicated students should, perhaps, be related to the Leadership feat. Are the students replaced if one is slain or otherwise removed from play? The [B]Dwarven Forgemaster[/B] is another favorite of mine … but I like dwarves … especially in leather, but that’s another story … ahem. I think the quests are a bit too easy. What about the items being made of material mined from an enemy stronghold? I like almost all of this classes abilities, they’re just good ideas. Some of the abilities, while still great ideas, have no relation to power level (Unforge, Mystic Forge Hammer, Tireless Champion). The Dwarven Hero ability is related to power level, but only marginally—maybe all of the bonuses could be related somehow. Elemental companions can’t be replaced so this power probably won’t be taken by anyone … perhaps replaced after a year and a day like familiars would suit best. I enjoyed the [B]Grandmaster of the Clouds[/B]—another favorite. I wondered why the requirements list as special abilities that have names in the monk class (Leap of the Clouds = leap unrestricted by height and unarmored speed = double the move of a normal creature…)? The quests were truly cool and the multiclassing note was a great call. The grandmaster’s powers a great too. Walk on the clouds should be cast as a cleric of some level, not such a limited duration (especially if ones wants to simulate Crouching Marmot, Hidden Billy Goat). Again, some of the abilities were not related to power level (Move with Grace, Move Without Boundaries, and etc.). I think Blink of an Eye should just go ahead and be once per day per power level, using dimension door as the base spell. [B]True King[/B] – good idea! This class has a lot of campaign value, but the qualifications are a bit too easy. The quests are what make it shine, classic but maybe a bit cliché—too many fantasy stories hinge on the idea of a fabled king. The powers seem good, but some are too ill defined, while others have not relation to the level at which they are chosen (Mighty Blow). Passionate Rhetoric is good in theory bur the duration is questionable. What does “battle” mean in this context? Heirloom is impressive, but from where do these items come? I also don’t totally understand Natural Leader (mostly the “bumped” off part and how it jives with the example you gave). Well, that’s all for tonight. I’ll give the rest a read on the morrow. I hope you all enjoy reading these. Maybe we could do a little netbook here on EN World after the contest. You know, edit these and put ‘em together with typeset pages and illustrations. Maybe the pros could give us some help … and I’d do the design and some of the drawings if everyone were game. I'll let everyone see my website after the contest 'cause I don't want anyone to know which entry is mine yet. Just an idea. Cheers! [/QUOTE]
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