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[FFG] Legendary Class Design Contest!
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<blockquote data-quote="Khur" data-source="post: 270208" data-attributes="member: 5583"><p><strong>Nimrod, take II</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My pleasure, it was fun to read yours (and everyone's) hard work – and I know it’s hard work. I think many ideas presented by the hopefuls in this contest were very good, such as your use of the word Nimrod. Many persons may think that Nimrod is an insulting term by its use in some slang today. Few in the general populace realize its application to skilled hunters, since Noah’s son (a skilled legendary hunter) was named Nimrod.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Many of us erred on the side of caution, probably influenced by experience as GMs in games gone awry as well as the concept of Prestige Classes. Without getting into the philosophy of game balance (a mythical creature greatly sought, but never captured), these LCs push the gamut of the concept. Should a legendary character have to be balanced? My thought is: no. Therefore, the accomplishments needed to get into such a class should be titanic. Players should try and fail.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Aha, I see what you did and from where the Will progression comes. The single +1 at the top threw me, since “low” saves are usually +0, +0, +1, +1, +1, +2, and etc. This may be a better idea than the dual “high” saving throw seen in many LCs, but refer to game balance above. LCs are like the monks, druids, and clerics of high-level play. They’re supposed to be burly, and so have better saves.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that this was a flaw in the original design of the game. Handle Animal (perhaps Animal Empathy) and Heal should have some synergy in this situation – so possessing both skills makes you a veterinarian. (This allows one to use the Expert class to make a great animal trainer and healer, especially if said NPC takes a level or three of adept.) </p><p></p><p>Most skills are broad in scope – for example in the PH it shows how Bluff can be used to feint in combat. Defenders of the Faith describes how Heal can be used to gather forensic evidence (a bad idea in my opinion, because it seems to assert that any doctor could do forensic work). This shows how broad a skill can be. I think that it’s reasonable to allow skills to affect each other or even require synergies. Like, instead of allowing a character with plain Heal to be a forensics expert, require Knowledge (forensics) as well, and the two grant synergy bonuses in some way in appropriate circumstances.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I understand, I just think that the class would be better served by slightly more powerful spellcasting, maybe with a choice from a specific list of appropriate druid spells – the choices limited by power level. (See the Green Warden’s <em>One with the Land</em> ability.) Consider Venom Immunity as the power level 5 ability for Druidic Abilities – I know it’s a 9th-level class feature for the druid, but so what. We’re talking a legendary hero with at the pinnacle of possible power. It’s also a nice relation to Prepare Antitoxin.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I see this Hunting Ability, but the possibilities expand before me. What you have here is more of a Prestige Class ability. Consider making the bonus +2 per power level to both abilities listed in Hunting Ability. Also, if the Nimrod has surprise on his side, why not allow an increased threat range (+1 per power level) for criticals and/or sneak-attack-like damage bonuses against animals? That’s legendary hunting! </p><p></p><p>The fact is, raised with a hunter, I learned it’s quite easy to bring down animals with one shot (from an arrow). But consider that Silver Marches lists an elk as having 16 hp on average and a non-magical 18-19 Str mighty longbow can do a maximum of 12 (1d8 + 4) on a non-critical hit (20). Hunters bring down animals listed with high hp (10+) more than 5% of the time. Further, it was well-known around where I grew up that a man with quite a temper killed a horse (light horse, 19 hp) with his fist in one blow – perhaps he just rolled 3 20s. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>I like this discussion!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Khur, post: 270208, member: 5583"] [b]Nimrod, take II[/b] My pleasure, it was fun to read yours (and everyone's) hard work – and I know it’s hard work. I think many ideas presented by the hopefuls in this contest were very good, such as your use of the word Nimrod. Many persons may think that Nimrod is an insulting term by its use in some slang today. Few in the general populace realize its application to skilled hunters, since Noah’s son (a skilled legendary hunter) was named Nimrod. Many of us erred on the side of caution, probably influenced by experience as GMs in games gone awry as well as the concept of Prestige Classes. Without getting into the philosophy of game balance (a mythical creature greatly sought, but never captured), these LCs push the gamut of the concept. Should a legendary character have to be balanced? My thought is: no. Therefore, the accomplishments needed to get into such a class should be titanic. Players should try and fail. Aha, I see what you did and from where the Will progression comes. The single +1 at the top threw me, since “low” saves are usually +0, +0, +1, +1, +1, +2, and etc. This may be a better idea than the dual “high” saving throw seen in many LCs, but refer to game balance above. LCs are like the monks, druids, and clerics of high-level play. They’re supposed to be burly, and so have better saves. I think that this was a flaw in the original design of the game. Handle Animal (perhaps Animal Empathy) and Heal should have some synergy in this situation – so possessing both skills makes you a veterinarian. (This allows one to use the Expert class to make a great animal trainer and healer, especially if said NPC takes a level or three of adept.) Most skills are broad in scope – for example in the PH it shows how Bluff can be used to feint in combat. Defenders of the Faith describes how Heal can be used to gather forensic evidence (a bad idea in my opinion, because it seems to assert that any doctor could do forensic work). This shows how broad a skill can be. I think that it’s reasonable to allow skills to affect each other or even require synergies. Like, instead of allowing a character with plain Heal to be a forensics expert, require Knowledge (forensics) as well, and the two grant synergy bonuses in some way in appropriate circumstances. I understand, I just think that the class would be better served by slightly more powerful spellcasting, maybe with a choice from a specific list of appropriate druid spells – the choices limited by power level. (See the Green Warden’s [I]One with the Land[/I] ability.) Consider Venom Immunity as the power level 5 ability for Druidic Abilities – I know it’s a 9th-level class feature for the druid, but so what. We’re talking a legendary hero with at the pinnacle of possible power. It’s also a nice relation to Prepare Antitoxin. I see this Hunting Ability, but the possibilities expand before me. What you have here is more of a Prestige Class ability. Consider making the bonus +2 per power level to both abilities listed in Hunting Ability. Also, if the Nimrod has surprise on his side, why not allow an increased threat range (+1 per power level) for criticals and/or sneak-attack-like damage bonuses against animals? That’s legendary hunting! The fact is, raised with a hunter, I learned it’s quite easy to bring down animals with one shot (from an arrow). But consider that Silver Marches lists an elk as having 16 hp on average and a non-magical 18-19 Str mighty longbow can do a maximum of 12 (1d8 + 4) on a non-critical hit (20). Hunters bring down animals listed with high hp (10+) more than 5% of the time. Further, it was well-known around where I grew up that a man with quite a temper killed a horse (light horse, 19 hp) with his fist in one blow – perhaps he just rolled 3 20s. :p I like this discussion! [/QUOTE]
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