FFG Warhammer 40,000 RPG

[GhostShip Blue]

I admit it. I fell in love with the universe of Warhammer 40,000 in 1987 when I bought the first edition of Rogue Trader. Since then I've had a love-hate relationship with Games Workshop. 40K is the second worst set of rules I've ever encountered. As a veteran everything about what GW doesn't understand about warfare and war fighting grates my nerves, and every cool idea, name and great piece of art has kept me hoping they'd do something playable with it.

In my opinion, the FFG series of RPGs are pretty good.

I haven't turned up too many (like no) threads pertaining to any of the games.

Anyone here play, have stories to share or any thoughts about the 40K RPGs? I'm paricularly interested in how GMs have handled the "mystery" component of Dark Heresy. As a new convert to Gumshoe, I've rediscovered a love of mysteries.

I've bashed GW more than is really appropriate, so let's try to steer clear of another version "GW sucks" thread.

 

[delericho]

I really wanted to like "Black Crusade". The book is absolutely gorgeous, the setting is pretty solid (not to mention being one that new RPG players tend to have prior familiarity with), and the notion of being the "bad guy" and having to balance Corruption and Infamy is pretty cool.

Unfortunately, apart from a tiny handful of one-shot ideas, I very quickly found I had absolutely no idea what to do with it. It also doesn't help that the game tends to be over-simplified where more complexity would be welcome, and over-complex where it would benefit from simplicity.

Plus, the "Hand of Corruption" had some really cool material in there (I got a distinct "Prison Break" vibe from it), but as a whole it was sorely disappointing.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

We played WHFRP (1st edition) and wrote out our own WH40k RPG rules based on that waaaaaay back when (re: 1990 or something?). Anyway, I jumped at buying the WH40k RPG books & GM Screens (RT, DH, and DW...probably pick up BC and OW at some point).

The drawback for me...I'll never play/GM any of them. Why? Well, simply put, my players were never exposed to the WH40k setting, so pretty much the MAIN thrust of the "game" is in the setting, background and details. They just wouldn't "get it", and it would become nothing more than "Oh, that space game with the marines and religious nuts".


^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[GhostShip Blue]

Anything from 40K is distinctly tied to an investment in, and relationship with, the fluff. It REALLY is the best part of the game. FFG's rules are functional, but certainly nothing ground breaking or unique. Virtually any of the "major" systems could be used just as well.

I'd have liked to have seen the setting served by something more widely used so that the vast possibilities available in the background could be more easily written up.

In a universe as broad and varied as the one GW presents us, there are a lot of weapons, vehicles and races NOT written into the rules that could be. I'm sure that maintaining strict control of canon was part of the design, but functionality has been lost.

Has anyone had any luck with homebrew rules for critters, equipment and the like?

 

[Super Pony]

In memoriam of MHRp's tragic demise, I am going to be running Deathwatch with the MHRp rule-set. I genuinely liked the game FFG made of it, but the d100 system is really antiquated and poorly emulates the super-heroic Space Marine action.

For Black Crusade, Only War and Dark Heresy I've adopted a black-jack resolution (roll nearest your target number without going over). Even though the probabilities of success are the same, it makes for a more interesting application of extra successes, etc. After...shoot...decades of roll over or roll under, it's about the only way I can stay engaged with the d100 resolution process.

I hacked Settlers of Catan into the shape of Rogue Trader for a one-off last year. The production values of my version were absolute shnikeys (I had stick figures and my bad hand writing on note cards in place of the actual well done game cards ). But it was fun to pit several members of a fading Rogue Trader dynasty working together and against one another to become the head of their fleet and conquer some new worlds for themsel....I mean the God Emperor!

I might try flipping the FFG Star Wars system into 40k (I know I know...haters are gonna hate, but I fething love it). But, my general lack of time and spotty interest from my gamer pals in the 40k setting will probably put that on my giant list of unfinished malformed ideas.

As far as homebrew critters and equipment, you could check out Dark Reign's web page. Though they have been up and down and shuttling old pages to the new one...not sure what all was lost but there were some GEMS on the old site that I hope survive the recent events. Nothing like kicking fans in the teeth to make GW feel good about themselves. I don't even shrug about it anymore though. I just always look at fan sites and grab what I can before the boot comes down .

 

[Bagpuss]

My main complaint with the rules (main experience is with Dark Heresy) is the character are so inept usually having at best 40% in their top skills at the start, often worse, and they don't improve that quickly either. So you can't have them relying on skill rolls to find clues in a mystery or else they are likely to miss them.

Which then makes you wonder why have all the investigation skills? A lot of the characters are not likely to have them because they aren't available on their career path or they haven't spent the XP on them. Even if they do have those skills, they are more likely than not going to fail them, most of the time as at best they are going to be 40% or lower for most of their careers.

 

[Super Pony]

My main complaint with the rules (main experience is with Dark Heresy) is the character are so inept usually having at best 40% in their top skills at the start, often worse, and they don't improve that quickly either. So you can't have them relying on skill rolls to find clues in a mystery or else they are likely to miss them.

To be fair, very few games support investigation and mystery where their resolution hangs on the success or failure of a skill check. Stick to the rule of three, imo. Otherwise most games of Call of Cthulhu would fall apart, and that game is (or at least can be) all about investigation.

 

[tomBitonti]

My main complaint with the rules (main experience is with Dark Heresy) is the character are so inept usually having at best 40% in their top skills at the start, often worse, and they don't improve that quickly either. So you can't have them relying on skill rolls to find clues in a mystery or else they are likely to miss them.

Which then makes you wonder why have all the investigation skills? A lot of the characters are not likely to have them because they aren't available on their career path or they haven't spent the XP on them. Even if they do have those skills, they are more likely than not going to fail them, most of the time as at best they are going to be 40% or lower for most of their careers.

I've been wondering about those particular mechanics. The math is enough different than the D20 or simple percentile (rolemaster; really exploding d20 with too much detail), in particular with the variable number of successes and failures, that I can't say that I understand it well enough to have a good feel for using it.

I do think that there is an expectation that players (and the GM) will heavily rely on obtaining additional modifiers whenever possible, either through assistance, or by getting bonuses from abilities in addition to the basic characteristic bonus.

Edit: For example, bonuses from spending (not burning) a fate point, or abilities that allow rerolls. Especially assistance from other players.

Thx!

TomB

 

[tomBitonti]

Also,

Although there don't seem to be many posts here for any of the games, charts of sales seem to put the games very high on the lists.

For example, http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/25377.html puts this order:

1 Pathfinder Paizo Publishing

2 Star Wars Fantasy Flight Games

3 Dungeons & Dragons Wizards of the Coast

4 Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader/Deathwatch Fantasy Flight Games

5 Iron Kingdoms Privateer Press

Although, I don't know if I should trust that. Is Star Wars still in print? How could it top D&D?

And, I'm not aware that IK has a huge following (but could be wrong). If IK is fairly low, that would make a huge range between 3 and 5, ranging from "lots" to "just a little".

Book stores do seem to provide a good amount of shelf space for FFG games, with only PathFinder and D&D having more space.

Thx!

TomB

 

[GhostShip Blue]

My main complaint with the rules (main experience is with Dark Heresy) is the character are so inept usually having at best 40% in their top skills at the start, often worse, and they don't improve that quickly either. So you can't have them relying on skill rolls to find clues in a mystery or else they are likely to miss them.

Which then makes you wonder why have all the investigation skills? A lot of the characters are not likely to have them because they aren't available on their career path or they haven't spent the XP on them. Even if they do have those skills, they are more likely than not going to fail them, most of the time as at best they are going to be 40% or lower for most of their careers.

This was one of my big complaints as well and is one of the best things about Gumshoe. Failed roll CAN'T stall an investigation. That kind of mechanic is far less useful in Deathwatch, especially for combat situation. However, I force my Astartes (nope, Marines wear green fatigues - even RMC and RCMC) to figure out what's going on a lot of the time. Players kind of dislike it, but they keep playing and it amuses me.

Does that make me a bad person?

As for Marvel - you know, I hadn't thought of it but that would suit the milieu pretty well. Perhaps not enough grit though. PCCS anyone - early adopters of Power Armor in the Living Steel game - with some VERY nasty gun combat rules that often made Cyberpunk look safe. Hmmm... I may have a new mission. Just have to port boltguns over to Phoenix Command...

tomBitonti: My remaining FLGS has long given the 40K stuff a lot of real estate, and it makes a kind of sense. The art is always first rate, eye catching and well suited to the market. Beardy gits like myself filter it out, but the young kid who sees the Astartes in his armor spraying Imperial Wroth at the Greenskins will look. Hard. If the FFG RPGs are doing well, give it the space. Stay OPEN, please, stay open. I don't care if I have to ask for want to be brought up from the basement because all the shelf space is taken up by new Codices, but I nearly cried when my life long store closed. Jerry never did carry GW stuff...

Super Pony, I'll check out Dark Reign. GW's track record is not the best in being customer friendly. A bit like WalMart though, they are profitable near as I can tell. If anyone is in the market fo a 40K hack, I'll buy the ASL-40K hack. I'd REALLY like a set of rules that make sense for miniatures but I can't get anyone to even look at StarGrunt.