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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gwarok" data-source="post: 7451414" data-attributes="member: 12249">I think one of the main issues with monsters not being able to hit PC's properly, especially lots of lower CR ones, is the fact that their Prof bonus is based on CR rating.   They have HP that are far higher than their Prof bonus would suggest.   Gladiators have 15HD but only a +3 Prof bonus instead of the +5 that that number of HD and HP would suggest.  That +2 makes a big difference.  That and also they never have magic weapons to help out like PC's, which usually will have a +1 or +2 even by a fairly decent level.   Even a Marilith, CR 16, just has a +9 to hit.  Granted she'll have plenty of attacks so I'm not saying they are a joke, but it isn't unreasonable for PC's to have 20+ AC at that point and that's going to mitigate them a lot.  Demons also don't have anywhere near the magical powers you'd think they'd have either, they're just DPS machines with a lot of HP.  Add to that a Protection vs. Evil gives disadvantage to just about anything magical out there and frankly my PC's don't have a lot to fear from a straight up fight with Celestials/Fiends/Undead/Elementals/Fey, even without insane magic gear on them or resorting to blatant munchkinism.   They basically didn't do much to scale things from low to high level on the monster side of things, whereas PC's develop all sorts of useful synergies that act as major force multipliers for them. You want to make fights for higher level campaigns that aren't just about how fast the PC's can mow through monster hit points you'll want to take a look at some of those techniques used by players and incorporate them into how the monsters fight.   The simplest way is to just add PC levels to monsters which gives them the same thing.   But that can be overdone as well as step on the PC's toes a bit.   But you'll absolutely have to tweek standard monster layouts.  Start including things like AOE auras of damage to monsters like the Spirit Guardian spell.   But yea, high level play isn't done that much.   I think it has to do with the fact that after about 13th or so, the PC's become so powerful it's hard to really relate to the average person, they're essentially super heroes, and it's hard to have a beer with someone or interact normally when you know they could level the entire city block and kill everyone in sight without breaking a sweat.   Standard fantasy tropes begin to break down and DM's and players have little to fill the gap.   Me, I just ripped a page from the many fantasy MMO's out there.   Made a higher level "zone" for them to play in.   Made Azzagrat an actual city the PC's can chill in, an interplanar hang out.   Grazzt's approach to seducing mortals being more about providing them a place to come play, it's Mardi Gras every day there, and you can buy/sell/trade awesome magic items.   And Grazzt himself is at the head of the parade throwing out beads and buying everyone drinks.   You're characters will be gods, and gods need somewhere to play.</blockquote>

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