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<blockquote data-quote="ExploderWizard" data-source="post: 5006764" data-attributes="member: 66434">Raw creativity exists outside of any system. I think we all lose sight of the fact that there doesn't have to be a box. The original game design was written to encourage creativity which does not mean there is anything wrong with the system. &nbsp;D&amp;D was designed as an adventure game with abstract mechanics. Rolling a d20 to &quot;attack&quot; could represent a variety of activities just as scoring &quot;damage&quot; could be interpreted in different ways. &nbsp;Over time the rules began to more narrowly define what was happening as the dice were rolled. This combined with rules more fixated on the capabilities of the PC's than the adventure created the &quot;box&quot; and associated limitations. &nbsp;The benefit of the abstract system is speed of play. Shiny buttons with interesting effects do create more pre-define reliable actions but the slowdown is very noticeable.&nbsp;The question becomes one of what the group finds more fun; the adventure itself or the handling of details related to resolving actions in the adventure. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If character builds and system mastery is an objective of play then abstract resolution won't scratch that itch. I don't recall a great deal of boredom with the older edition adventures unless the DM didn't keep things moving and that can happen with any mechanics. 10- 20 minute combats didn't drag on long enough to become monotonous.&nbsp;&nbsp;Everything of course depends on the goals of both the game design, and the wishes of the players.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ExploderWizard, post: 5006764, member: 66434"] Raw creativity exists outside of any system. I think we all lose sight of the fact that there doesn't have to be a box. The original game design was written to encourage creativity which does not mean there is anything wrong with the system. D&D was designed as an adventure game with abstract mechanics. Rolling a d20 to "attack" could represent a variety of activities just as scoring "damage" could be interpreted in different ways. Over time the rules began to more narrowly define what was happening as the dice were rolled. This combined with rules more fixated on the capabilities of the PC's than the adventure created the "box" and associated limitations. The benefit of the abstract system is speed of play. Shiny buttons with interesting effects do create more pre-define reliable actions but the slowdown is very noticeable. The question becomes one of what the group finds more fun; the adventure itself or the handling of details related to resolving actions in the adventure. If character builds and system mastery is an objective of play then abstract resolution won't scratch that itch. I don't recall a great deal of boredom with the older edition adventures unless the DM didn't keep things moving and that can happen with any mechanics. 10- 20 minute combats didn't drag on long enough to become monotonous. Everything of course depends on the goals of both the game design, and the wishes of the players. [/QUOTE]

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