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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 2653597" data-attributes="member: 326">Hey GC! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Any creature that doesn't age is unnatural. Any creature that is not 'born' is unnatural.I think something that seems to have been forgotten over the years is the idea that many Outsiders are actually spirits.Outsider Hit Dice has nothing to do with size. Graz'zt is smaller than a Glabrezu, but has far more Hit Dice.For Outsiders, Fey, (Intelligent) Undead and to a certain extent Constructs, Hit Dice is a measure of inherant power, not mere physicality.I think thats one of the great ideas that have been forgotten over the years, although its not something I would implement wholesale, although its probably more predominant in the Lawful Planes than the Chaotic Planes. External forces acting upon them rather than internal compulsions.Thats exactly what I am postulating for Spirits/Outsiders. Only natives of the material plane have 'free will' to decide their ethics.  Either they advance by Hit Dice or they advance by Class Levels. I don't see how you can justify both.Have you ever addressed the question of how exactly Outsiders gain Hit Dice?Well I'll agree with you that there is probably too much water under the bridge with regards Outsiders and Class Levels to change things at this stage of this edition of D&D. I'll take it, but I don't have to like it. However, don't expect to see me jump into every thread on fiends and belabour the point. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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