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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Grover Cleaveland" data-source="post: 2660650" data-attributes="member: 34932">If size is irrelevant, there's no good reason to shrink an Abyssal prince's dominion down. Abyssal princes rule entire layers of the Abyss by definition (2nd edition called them Abyssal lords, but the same applies). If they rule only part of a layer they're not princes, but mere lords. Why arbitrarily change that for no reason? Don't limit yourself! Think big! The planes should be vast and unlimited and beautiful, not small and bounded and sad (even the sad, ugly planes should be vast and beautiful in their way).I would still argue that ruling an entire layer is better than ruling a single realm in one - not because it covers more area, but because the ruler would gain the full benefit of the entire layer's energy.The Abyss is filled with a violent hatred for all life (including demonic life). Earth isn't.  First of all, where do you quarantine a billion demons? You're going to have to stow them somewhere in the Abyss, which has a tendency to turn toxic and malevolent even toward its natives. Further, putting any significant number of demons in a relatively small (or even a large) area is a surefire recipe for internecine war. Come back a year later and they'll either all have eaten one another or there'll be just one big hungry one, who will proceed to conquer the layer for itself.No, they're not, not when the war is between alignments rather than individuals. If demons win a battle against other outsiders, it's because their vision of chaotic evil is more prevalent and successful than the alternative take on alignments.Russians might not have been as disciplined or as well-supplied as the Germans, but they weren't devouring one another or destroying their lessers with storms of fiendish energy purely for the pleasure of watching them sizzle either. They weren't tanar'ri, which is why any analogy involving humans is going to fall short. We're not talking about humans! Chaos and evil turn on themselves and can't be controlled.  They do this because it works for them. Not always, but if an army of Chaos doesn't use chaotic tactics they're going to lose, because Law certainly isn't their strength. At the same time, Chaos has inherent weaknesses, and it's the relative weaknesses and strengths of Chaos, and how well the tanar'ri tacticians and troops are attuned with it, that will determine victory.I hope I'm not getting too mystical or abstract for anyone. Demons are "real" as much as anything in D&D is, but they exist on a different level of being. They're abstract concepts made incarnate, which is why they should be treated differently than a horde of orcs or ferrets or what have you. Things like troop numbers or breeding programs or the size of the various Abyssal layers isn't going to guarantee victory for them - only spreading Chaos and Evil more effectively than others can spread Law or Good.</blockquote>

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