Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Grover Cleaveland" data-source="post: 2666903" data-attributes="member: 34932">Reviewing the limitations of the Gate spell, it seems Orcus can prevent such magicks from operating within his "personal demesnes" - it's arguable whether this refers to only his palace in Naratyr, to his capital cities of Naratyr and Lachymosa, or his entire layer. If it's the last, there's no way Demogorgon can use Gate to invade Thanatos directly - and it would be reasonable to limit even higher-level spells in a like manner. Epic magic or portals could of course avoid the limited duration.It is, of course, possible that natural portals exist connecting Gaping Maw and Thanatos, but that's up the discretion of the individual DM.In a campaign where there are great (even infinite) expanses of Thanatos uncontrolled by Orcus, there's nothing hindering Demogorgon's advance at all - he simply opens his portal in secret, outside the radius in which Orcus can sense such things, and he gets his entire army through before the Goat is any the wiser. Or, more subtly, he helps encourage the rise to power of some other demon or undead thing native to Thanatos to distract his foe.If Demogorgon doesn't wish to use a portal, and Thanatos and Gaping Maw are not connected directly, how many layers are there between them? Just one - the Plain of Infinite Portals, which has massive natural (I'd argue nonmagical) portals connecting both layers - and this is borne out in all editions of the game. The Plain of Portals is, the majority of the time, going to be the single layer in between any two layers of the Abyss. And this Plain isn't ruled by any single prince, eliminating the need for alliances. The confusion comes probably from the assumption that the numbers assigned to the various Abyssal layers has any intrinsic meaning. In fact, objectively, most layers are the "second" layer of the Abyss, as they are directly connected to the first - and possibly others as well. This is true for all the best-known ones, anyway, except Sess'inek's, whose portals have all been sealed shut (although a major force like Demogorgon could in theory break those seals). There are other layers that have been sealed off as well, either by their inhabitants or would-be jailers, but the greatest regents are all connected to the Plain of Infinite Portals - this allows them to better increase their power.Other likely nexus layers include the Grand Abyss (catalogued as the fifth) and Durao (numbered #274).</blockquote>

Verification