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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Grover Cleaveland" data-source="post: 2695637" data-attributes="member: 34932">The layer doesn't bond with anyone until there is a single unquestioned leader. If you want to put it in game terms, each candidate rolls a Charisma check against the layer's Wisdom. The first candidate who succeeds bonds with the layer. Anyone who fails rolls a Will save or the layer devours it and adds another +1 bonus to its Wisdom score. Anyone who wishes to take the layer away from its prince has to prove its superiority, and then make the Charisma check.I think I explained it quite well.What I said was that neither Orcus nor Mephistopheles has absolute control over the inhabitants of their layers, but Mephistopheles would, as a LE being, be more likely to desire such control. The point was to illustrate the differences between the CE and LE approaches to rulership. CE beings permit their underlings a certain amount of freedom because it empowers them. That doesn't follow. Again, your grasp on logic is haphazard at best. If the amount of demons begins with a finite number, it will always be a finite number no matter how quickly they reproduce, and in any case an Abyssal lord will only be able to muster a finite number of troops in an army at any one time.</blockquote>