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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 2696616" data-attributes="member: 326">Hey GC! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Fair enough.Given that you are now answering Shemeskas posts I assume this isn't your last temptation. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Well you could always see sense and start agreeing with me. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> I understand your views, I just don't see the practicality of them. Just as 2nd Edition/Planescape had no practical benefit for epic or immortal games. Its a fairly simple idea. Each prime material world has its own corresponding (kosmically localised) planar area. The demon lords of one world are not the same demon lords of another. So sages of Greyhawk will know about Demogorgon, Orcus and so forth, but they may not be known on Athas. The localised area of each layer is about the same size as the corresponding planets surface, laid flat. Beyond this area simply does not exist for the inhabitants of the layer. It could be a gaping void, impenetrable blackness, a forcefield, a dense mist, a horizon that can never be reached, etc. preventing them from going further.However, if the inhabitants of one prime material world are introduced to another, then their cosmologies also expand and become aware of the other. The more worlds that are introduced keep expanding the kosmically localised areas.Wrong. By making him a Lesser Deity I hold true to the original spirit of the character.Irrelevant information given there were no deity stats in 2nd Edition. Which of course was then contradicted when Planescape published stats for Graz'zt which made him incredibly feeble by comparison to the practically infinite power of 2nd Edition deities. I disagree.  Those deities would have, at best, an even chance of defeating Demogorgon in his home realm.This sort of logical argument works with WotC's interpretations of quasi-deity powered demon lords, but it doesn't wash with mine.Utter rubbish. 1st Edition was not broken at all. 2nd Edition/Planescape made deities irrelevant. 3rd Edition did the right thing in bringing back the stats but was flawed in that it created the parameters for deities but then reduced the demon lords so that they could arbitrarily be manhandled by powerful (but non-epic) mortals.I'm all for hearing ideas if they make sense and add something to the game (the infinite realm approach throws up more anomalies than its worth and adds nothing but confusion).I fail to see how you can honestly say they are not remotely similar. Is a caterpillar to butterfly metamorphosis not remotely like a re-birth?Or its possible they can't breed at all.So basically, what you are saying is that Asmodeus could have breeding grounds, but the Abyssal Lords cannot? If so, then the devils, with their strict breeding programs would easily win the Blood War within a relatively short space of time.The whole idea of them breeding is preposterous in itself. But if they can breed, then all the other outsiders can breed, and the one who breeds the most is going to dominate the rest.I think his control is a bit better than 'herding them in the right direction'. If it wasn't, then nothing would ever get done in the Abyss.I disagree. How is Orcus city, for example, overtly hazardous?Well I wouldn't necessarily say Iraq is safe in the current climate, but I suspect the births far exceed the violent deaths.Well thats the point though. There is a lack of precedents on both sides. Its up to the people who want practical rules at these power levels to adopt something that works for them, not bewilder them with sophistry.Kosmos refers to the combined material and spiritual universes, as opposed to cosmos which only refers to the material universe.</blockquote>

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