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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ripzerai" data-source="post: 2698078" data-attributes="member: 38324">Heh. It didn't say kobolds weren't deities either - obviously that's not a very good line of reasoning. Being a deity seems worth mentioning.Firstly, since greater deities are capable of planar travel at will, this is irrelevant. Secondly, Set was a greater deity who lived in the Nine Hells - why didn't he take them over? Thirdly, you're incorrect - the Manual of the Planes actually says "Few Greater Powers make the Abyss their home," which is very different from none.You might want to brush up a little on 1st edition cosmology.Except we know they won't always, since there are a number of deities dwelling in the Abyss - Vaprak, Tou Mu, Lu Yueh, Laogzed, Urdlen, and Kali, to just name the 1st edition ones.Demons aren't inherently racist - they mostly hate all things equally. Baatezu are racist; tanar'ri miscegenate freely and even with relish. They don't treat their half-breed offspring well, but they don't treat anything well - what's important is that they don't kick things out just because they're not tanar'ri.Only greater deities (and planar lords) were anything close to omniscient in 2nd edition - their nearest rivals, the intermediate gods, could only sense in a 100 mile radius or near their worshippers.But you're right - the power to expel pantheons wasn't their only power; obviously, they had some sort of ability to protect themselves from divine attacks as well. It was vague, but vague is better than horribly broken, as 1st and 3rd edition are.Because there was a concern about making a cosmos that made some sort of self-consistent sense as far as the relationship between deities and planar lords went - something that Gygax tried spiritedly to do, but never really managed.Who are these "you and your cohorts?" Remember that The Primal Order thread I contributed to, hawkeye? I've never complained about divine-level campaigns!I do believe that's what you're doing right now, and I can't even tell what brought this on. We're trying to take your books away or something? Deities don't have servants? He's the titular prince of all demonkind, a handsome trophy by any standards. And he's a major force of evil - his defeat would be a great triumph for the forces of Good. Demons, who respect only strength (and are not particularly racist), might well serve the one who defeated their master. And gods don't always need reasons - mysterious ways, you know. Asmodeus, as the uncontested ruler of an entire plane, is an even more tempting target. Hextor would have offed him long ago in your cosmology. The outer planes are linked to the various worlds by astral conduits. So where do the invisible walls come from? It's the invisible walls that are the arbitrary part.Better wait till later, when I mention the fact that only female baatezu are sterile - durzugons have baatezu fathers. Better yet, when you read that part, you can go back and edit this last line so you don't look quite so foolish. Sure, but remember that anything a mass of demons do is going to be more destructive as it is creative - it can be a continually mass orgy of slaughter mixed with the occasional procreation. No, I didn't say that. In fact, that's what the fiends are counting on. They believe they can win against every other race - but to do that, they have to upset the Balance.No, physical combat is the agent by which the job is completed. Demogorgon and his armies might grow stronger than the legions of Azzagrat, but this won't do him much good until he tries them out.</blockquote>

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