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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 3290219" data-attributes="member: 2205">I guess I'm guilty of over-rating it.  Along with The Monsternomicon it's my favorite d20 book.  But I think you make some good points.  Let's see:I've thought about doing that exact same thing before.  The thaumaturge isn't a complete waste of space, but it's not something I'd ever use.  I can appreciate the flavor of it, but I agree that other solutions would be more up my alley, including the same ones you offer, actually.Well, there's two competing goals here, and one makes the other impossible to achieve.  When the fiends got boosted in the change from 3e to 3.5, the logical thing to do, given fiendish hierarchies, would have been to boost the Dukes of Hell and whatnot.  However, doing so makes the statblocks considerably less useful to DMs because the CRs are now out of range of most campaign arcs, whereas keeping them at about the same power level means that they're usable.  So, while I see you're point, I think Green Ronin was kinda stuck between two undesirable alternatives and picked the best one.  There's always advancement rules for monster entries to get the fiendish "lords" up to where they need to be, after all.True.  I like the Demonomicon practice of offering up even more advanced versions when they do the demon lords myself.  Dagon, for example, is what--CR 21 or so in FC:I (going by memory; could be off by a few) while his recent dragon article pumped him up to CR 33.  I think that makes a lot more sense for a demon lord, personally.Really?  I think it's got a lot of things in it that are more "vile" than the BOVD.  Not that the Book of Fiends is just unremitting nastiness or anything, but I didn't really see it as silly-stupid evil, and I thought the "vile" angle was definately a cut above Vile Darkness.To add one critique of my own--I know Loeb and Schwalb put a fair bit of effort in the daemons section to offer play hooks for each creature type; a reason to have it involved in the campaign, so to speak.  However, I think the play hooks are pretty repetitive.  They almost all boil down to either a PC or an NPC commit some sin and a daemon comes a-calling in payment.</blockquote>

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