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Fifth Edition.....Why?
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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7290617" data-attributes="member: 6919838"><p>just to state the obvious...</p><p></p><p>as a GM if i felt the need to have an adversary above 20 class levels, i would have no problem with giving it additional multiclass levels and the abilities and such while *not* necessarily giving them the extension of "character level gains". </p><p></p><p>So, Macguffin The Undying might actually be a 20th level character with 20 levels of sorc, 15 levels of bard, 10 levels of warlock and 5 levels of rogue... or as a "monster" written up with relevant elements of the same.</p><p></p><p>In my experience, by the time a Gm is seasoned enough to be running ten levels of campaign with character at doubdle digit ranks - they tend to have gathered enough experience to be able to (and likely have already been to a significant degree) adapt adversaries to fit the unique needs of their PCs, campaign and storyline.</p><p></p><p>Aside</p><p></p><p>For my own history, easily beyond 9th level characters - or their equivalent rank in any other system i have ran or played - i cannot recall a case where i could reasonably expect to take a standard npc/monster stat block out of the book "as is" and use it as a "boss" or "named villain" or main threat kind of element. I could certainly use a standard npc/monster stat block for minions or what i would basically see as "setting hazards" where they were as much the "meat" of an encounter as a lava stream or a dark and stormy night.</p><p></p><p>But... because by double digit levels the variability between one "group of four" to another is so high i have never seen a case where i would be able to take one of the standard npc/monster stat block and use it "as is" and have it be what was needed.</p><p></p><p>From that perspective, i often hate the approach of "here, have a list of NPCs from higher levels than before" approach to "expansion".</p><p></p><p>What i think would be more helpful to have would be more elaborate grab-bags of add-on features to raise the ante as well as more details and suggestions and maybe some analysis tolls to help Gms at those levels and before better assess the relative impacts.</p><p></p><p>one tool that i think would be useful is a set of say a couple dozen "set pieces" encounters scaled to be useful at multiple levels - with things to learn from them - as in "if your party went thru this with no casualties in two rounds...." vs "if your party beat ths in six rounds with 1 or more casualties..." and having those factors give them Gm som benchmarks to use to adjust how his group should be viewed for CR purposes, for specific challenge purposes, etc. </p><p></p><p>For some, that could be a useful analytic tool, for others it would give them perhaps a helpful "measuring stick" to quantify the skews they already see.</p><p></p><p>i would buy the "high end (tier 3-6) toolbox" a lot quicker than i would buy a "high end (tier 3-6) rogue's gallery".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7290617, member: 6919838"] just to state the obvious... as a GM if i felt the need to have an adversary above 20 class levels, i would have no problem with giving it additional multiclass levels and the abilities and such while *not* necessarily giving them the extension of "character level gains". So, Macguffin The Undying might actually be a 20th level character with 20 levels of sorc, 15 levels of bard, 10 levels of warlock and 5 levels of rogue... or as a "monster" written up with relevant elements of the same. In my experience, by the time a Gm is seasoned enough to be running ten levels of campaign with character at doubdle digit ranks - they tend to have gathered enough experience to be able to (and likely have already been to a significant degree) adapt adversaries to fit the unique needs of their PCs, campaign and storyline. Aside For my own history, easily beyond 9th level characters - or their equivalent rank in any other system i have ran or played - i cannot recall a case where i could reasonably expect to take a standard npc/monster stat block out of the book "as is" and use it as a "boss" or "named villain" or main threat kind of element. I could certainly use a standard npc/monster stat block for minions or what i would basically see as "setting hazards" where they were as much the "meat" of an encounter as a lava stream or a dark and stormy night. But... because by double digit levels the variability between one "group of four" to another is so high i have never seen a case where i would be able to take one of the standard npc/monster stat block and use it "as is" and have it be what was needed. From that perspective, i often hate the approach of "here, have a list of NPCs from higher levels than before" approach to "expansion". What i think would be more helpful to have would be more elaborate grab-bags of add-on features to raise the ante as well as more details and suggestions and maybe some analysis tolls to help Gms at those levels and before better assess the relative impacts. one tool that i think would be useful is a set of say a couple dozen "set pieces" encounters scaled to be useful at multiple levels - with things to learn from them - as in "if your party went thru this with no casualties in two rounds...." vs "if your party beat ths in six rounds with 1 or more casualties..." and having those factors give them Gm som benchmarks to use to adjust how his group should be viewed for CR purposes, for specific challenge purposes, etc. For some, that could be a useful analytic tool, for others it would give them perhaps a helpful "measuring stick" to quantify the skews they already see. i would buy the "high end (tier 3-6) toolbox" a lot quicker than i would buy a "high end (tier 3-6) rogue's gallery". [/QUOTE]
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