Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Fighter (Playtest 7)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 9161356" data-attributes="member: 6932123"><p>So I never put the Brawler into my spreadsheet, as it just felt clunky, and I wasn't sure how to frame it. However, I saw an interesting idea mentioned as a side effect of the cantrip updates, and went back to look at the Brawler in terms of damage.</p><p></p><p>First, a feature I'd missed (or forgot) was that at level 15 you can add your proficiency bonus to your attack damage. This isn't limited to once per round, so adds up to a substantial amount of extra damage. You start with +5 damage per hit, and it goes up to +6 at level 17.</p><p></p><p>Now, if you only included that, but were using a 1d6 one-handed improvised weapon, that would only bring you up to par with the other subclasses at level 15+. However an interesting combo shows up if you grab Magic Initiate at level 1, taking Shillelagh.</p><p></p><p>Shillelagh works on clubs and quarterstaffs. An improvised weapon that is similar to an existing weapon can be treated as that weapon. That means you can Shillelagh your broken chair leg or torch or whatever.</p><p></p><p>Further, the damage die of the Shillelagh'd weapon scales with the cantrip level. It starts at a d8 at level 1, then a d10 at level 5, a d12 at level 11, and 2d6 at level 17. This gives you the higher damage dice you want without having to argue with the DM over whatever random object you pick up. As long as it's close enough to a club, you're good to go. (And if the target resists bludgeoning damage, Shillelagh lets you use force damage.)</p><p></p><p>Since you can always use Vex as the weapon mastery for a one-handed improvised weapon, that's what I chose. At level 13+, with Studied Attack, you get almost permanent advantage, aside from switching targets. When you can use a second weapon mastery on each attack, I'd probably add Sap to give whoever I hit disadvantage as well. (And might as well toss in Slow if you hit more than once.)</p><p></p><p>Doing this puts you on par with other one-handed subclass choices prior to level 15, but surpasses even a PAM BM build at levels 15+. It's over 20% ahead at level 20.</p><p></p><p>Here's a chart:</p><p><img src="https://i.imgur.com/H0sPspV.png" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>This looks like it's perfectly viable for an improvised weapon focus early on, switching to quite powerful at high levels.</p><p></p><p>This doesn't really get into the unarmed strikes and grappling side. Using a one-handed weapon does leave a hand free to grapple a creature, which you can do as a bonus action starting at level 7, and that creature automatically takes another 1d6 damage each round for an extra little bit of bonus damage. However it's more complicated to use unarmed fighting in general, and hard to know how to mix it with the improvised weapons side.</p><p></p><p>Still, if the improvised weapons side is strong enough to stand on its own, the unarmed fighting side can just act as a flavorful bonus.</p><p></p><p>Thoughts?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kinematics, post: 9161356, member: 6932123"] So I never put the Brawler into my spreadsheet, as it just felt clunky, and I wasn't sure how to frame it. However, I saw an interesting idea mentioned as a side effect of the cantrip updates, and went back to look at the Brawler in terms of damage. First, a feature I'd missed (or forgot) was that at level 15 you can add your proficiency bonus to your attack damage. This isn't limited to once per round, so adds up to a substantial amount of extra damage. You start with +5 damage per hit, and it goes up to +6 at level 17. Now, if you only included that, but were using a 1d6 one-handed improvised weapon, that would only bring you up to par with the other subclasses at level 15+. However an interesting combo shows up if you grab Magic Initiate at level 1, taking Shillelagh. Shillelagh works on clubs and quarterstaffs. An improvised weapon that is similar to an existing weapon can be treated as that weapon. That means you can Shillelagh your broken chair leg or torch or whatever. Further, the damage die of the Shillelagh'd weapon scales with the cantrip level. It starts at a d8 at level 1, then a d10 at level 5, a d12 at level 11, and 2d6 at level 17. This gives you the higher damage dice you want without having to argue with the DM over whatever random object you pick up. As long as it's close enough to a club, you're good to go. (And if the target resists bludgeoning damage, Shillelagh lets you use force damage.) Since you can always use Vex as the weapon mastery for a one-handed improvised weapon, that's what I chose. At level 13+, with Studied Attack, you get almost permanent advantage, aside from switching targets. When you can use a second weapon mastery on each attack, I'd probably add Sap to give whoever I hit disadvantage as well. (And might as well toss in Slow if you hit more than once.) Doing this puts you on par with other one-handed subclass choices prior to level 15, but surpasses even a PAM BM build at levels 15+. It's over 20% ahead at level 20. Here's a chart: [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/H0sPspV.png[/IMG] This looks like it's perfectly viable for an improvised weapon focus early on, switching to quite powerful at high levels. This doesn't really get into the unarmed strikes and grappling side. Using a one-handed weapon does leave a hand free to grapple a creature, which you can do as a bonus action starting at level 7, and that creature automatically takes another 1d6 damage each round for an extra little bit of bonus damage. However it's more complicated to use unarmed fighting in general, and hard to know how to mix it with the improvised weapons side. Still, if the improvised weapons side is strong enough to stand on its own, the unarmed fighting side can just act as a flavorful bonus. Thoughts? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Fighter (Playtest 7)
Top