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Fighter (Playtest 7)
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<blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 9161658" data-attributes="member: 6932123"><p>Granted, it's still up to the DM. However this basic condition in the rules is why you can have anything other than the default damage dice at all (1d4), and the premise for why using improvised weapons can be considered anything above garbage tier in the first place (part of the original argument over the Brawler).</p><p></p><p>Being able to treat an object as a particular weapon does not mean it's not still an improvised weapon. It just means you get to use things that depend on the mimicked weapon type, such as damage type, damage dice, or, in this case, casting limitations.</p><p></p><p>(That said, I totally understand the argument that this shouldn't be allowed. I'm just trying to support the case that this seems like an entirely legitimate use case.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>This part confuses me. It seems like this does exactly the opposite. Part of the original arguments over the Brawler were that you'd have to find some improvised weapon that your DM would allow does good damage, and then you'd just carry that with you because you could never be guaranteed a chance to find something similar in any other location. So you'd end up not actually improvising much at all.</p><p></p><p>With the cantrip, you are completely free of that constraint, and you can pick up almost anything, anywhere, that, as long as it could be considered a club or a large stick (quarterstaff) allows you to deal the full damage of a normal weapon. It may not work with chains or ladders or a thrown rock, but it adapts well to a very large swathe of what you might pick up (a mop, a torch, a broken chair leg, a tree branch, a wine bottle, etc), so you're most definitely staying within the fantasy of using improvised weapons. You're just using the cantrip to empower them, and skip the argument with the DM every time you pick up something new.</p><p></p><p>It's also like a better scaled version of the Improvised Specialist feature (lvl 15), which raises the die size of all your two-handed weapons to a d12, so there's a degree of similarity already in place. I wouldn't be averse to it being a built-in feature for the class, rather than a cantrip (even if including the limit to club or quarterstaff-like improvised weapons). It does make me question whether the subclass should retain the boost to damage by proficiency bonus at level 15, though, as that feels like it gets a bit overpowered.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kinematics, post: 9161658, member: 6932123"] Granted, it's still up to the DM. However this basic condition in the rules is why you can have anything other than the default damage dice at all (1d4), and the premise for why using improvised weapons can be considered anything above garbage tier in the first place (part of the original argument over the Brawler). Being able to treat an object as a particular weapon does not mean it's not still an improvised weapon. It just means you get to use things that depend on the mimicked weapon type, such as damage type, damage dice, or, in this case, casting limitations. (That said, I totally understand the argument that this shouldn't be allowed. I'm just trying to support the case that this seems like an entirely legitimate use case.) This part confuses me. It seems like this does exactly the opposite. Part of the original arguments over the Brawler were that you'd have to find some improvised weapon that your DM would allow does good damage, and then you'd just carry that with you because you could never be guaranteed a chance to find something similar in any other location. So you'd end up not actually improvising much at all. With the cantrip, you are completely free of that constraint, and you can pick up almost anything, anywhere, that, as long as it could be considered a club or a large stick (quarterstaff) allows you to deal the full damage of a normal weapon. It may not work with chains or ladders or a thrown rock, but it adapts well to a very large swathe of what you might pick up (a mop, a torch, a broken chair leg, a tree branch, a wine bottle, etc), so you're most definitely staying within the fantasy of using improvised weapons. You're just using the cantrip to empower them, and skip the argument with the DM every time you pick up something new. It's also like a better scaled version of the Improvised Specialist feature (lvl 15), which raises the die size of all your two-handed weapons to a d12, so there's a degree of similarity already in place. I wouldn't be averse to it being a built-in feature for the class, rather than a cantrip (even if including the limit to club or quarterstaff-like improvised weapons). It does make me question whether the subclass should retain the boost to damage by proficiency bonus at level 15, though, as that feels like it gets a bit overpowered. [/QUOTE]
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