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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 9379800" data-attributes="member: 6799660">Not specific to you, but I do wish this memetic turn of phrase would end. Since no one is under any obligation to change the statement-maker's mind, it makes it seem like engaging in the topic is acquiescing to an unrealistically demanding individual. I wish we could move back to something like: -- "Proposal: Fighter should be called Knight and Monk Should be called Fighter (thoughts?)."There's definitely meat to this argument. For the sake of the discussion, I will work from the premise that the two class mechanics are worth preserving separately.Outside of the Orientalism, this seems to have the same problem as Monks for the Monk class* -- it is affixing a social and cultural connotation onto something that may include, but is not bounded within that connotation. Plenty of iconic historical, fictional, and conceptual characters that likely would end up as Fighters in D&D would not fit as "knights." The first example that comes to mind would be Game of Thrones' Sandor "I'm no Sir" Clegane. as well as every historical soldier or fantasy castle guards/soldiers/sentries that explicitly weren't knights.*see also: DruidBarbarians* seem like the good fits for new players. However, I've run into newbies having significant hurdles in using them. Their formulation as 'low-AC, high-(effective) HP' class that benefits from recklessness is a careful tightrope to walk. Probably more importantly, they require you to attack or be attacked each round to keep your rage up. That seems to trip up more than a few people (newbies and otherwise), as even characters who contribute in fights mostly be attacking things often want to just double move on some round in the middle of combat. *also rogues -- conceptually they work, but they require a lot of know-how both in terms of  managing actions, bonus actions, reactions, and movement to be effective but still survive; as well as knowing when you can get away with stealthing out ahead of the party or picking a nobles pocket, etc.**fortunately, if it matches the playtest material, this will go away with D&D2024, as you can use a bonus action to maintain the rage.Hmm. I have to disagree. "Martial arts" includes fencing and kendo and HEMA and Arnis/Eskrima and of course the Okinawan martial arts that gave the ninja-turtles their signature weapons, and so on. Fortunately, the D&D Monk also isn't exclusively about unarmed combat.</blockquote>

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