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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5271886" data-attributes="member: 61155">Ok, note that several lines in my post were in the form of questions. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth - I'm trying to actually figure out what you are saying here. Saying, "this transition makes your class pretty much obsolete" sounds like a pretty loaded statement... ...but now that you've clarified it as "that the major defining feature of a class as it is presented in the PHB, mainly role, is now mutable" - that I pretty much agree with. It just felt like a very different statement than you originally were coming from.  My point, largely, was that while I think role was certainly a large part of how the classes were presented, I don't think it was the only part, or even the most important part. Despite the flexibility of how one could flavor them, they still retained most of the classic concepts of each class. The mage is the student of magic, the fighter is the heavily armored guy skilled with weapons, the rogue is the lightly armored guy who uses tricks to get ahead, etc. I think those core concepts hold true even when we've seen existing variants crop up in supplements, and will remain so even with these greater variants seen in Essentials. Now, it does sound like part of your disagreement is that you just didn't see the PHB as presenting the Fighter as anything outside of 'Martial Defender' - and maybe that is a failure on WotC's part, if they weren't able to portray more flavor than that. But in the end, for myself, I just don't see 'Martial Defender' as encapsulating the whole of the Fighter - anymore than 'Arcane Striker' can fully capture the Sorcerer and the Warlock, two classes with significant differences that nonetheless occupy the same power source and role.</blockquote>

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