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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sitara" data-source="post: 4319683" data-attributes="member: 58107">@zsig: Nope, I had the ranger go toe to toe with the guard. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> As I mentioend before, IMO had the ranger been allowed to start at range with a bow he would have won. But even then, IMO his toe to toe performance was poorer than expected. @VIctoly: Note my main point is not a pvp between a fighter and ranger, it wasa fighter vs a human guard and thena ranger vs a human guard best of 3 each; the fighter won all 3, the ranger lost all 3. Both were fully optimized btw. The ranger was outfitted with twin scimitars and took the most powerfulencounter and daily  powers to complement TWF (like jaws of the wolf). And yeah I htink he actually had a point or two hp above the fighter due to the toughness feat. He did start toe to toe though.One thing I will say at level 1 is that initiative really matters, at least it did in this fight. If the human guard wins init and lays in his recharge power (the one that knocks you prone and does a lotta damage) you will most likely lose, unless if you are a paladin with the LOH ability. (because the guard uses his recharge power and knocks you prone, then shifts back 1 sq. That means you cannot attack him next round in melee unless you use an ap)I have not yet experimented with the rogue, cleric and warlord. I am surprised to hear the rogue may be as good as you say, since on paper he looks flimsy (and most of his powers are with a lightblade, not quite a match with a greataxe you know) But you know what, you can all do this test by yourselves: Make a level 1 fighter and a level 1 ranger (and heck a level 1 rogue as well). Run them all through test comabts vs the Human Guard in the 4e MM, say by doing a best of 3 each and post the results here. It will be good to compare.Lastly note, I am not stating the fighter is the king of melee; I am basically putting this out there because right now with my LIMITED experiance it is what seems like to me. I just picked the human guard for fun and because there was a huge thread on it over at rpg.net (you should read it, its quite interesting where numerous posters give their accounts of their level 1 pc vs the human guard) However after running the test with the paladin and fighter, I just became shocked when the ranger, who I thought would utterly destroy the guard got owned instead.</blockquote>

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