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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5833687" data-attributes="member: 87792">Then all I can say is that your casters were not very creative.  The wizard is competative with the fighter from level 1.  <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/colorSpray.htm" target="_blank">Colour Spray</a> creates a 15 foot cone that turns monsters with 4hd or less (i.e. almost everything you will be facing at first level) into punchbags.As for druid vs fighter (where the obvious imbalance is), at level 1 a druid can have a <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wolf.htm" target="_blank">wolf</a> as an animal companion.  And assuming the fighter was built with the Standard Array, the wolf almost certainly has more hit points, about the same attack bonus, and a trip thrown in for free.  And some actually useful skills.  No, the wolf isn't quite the fighter a fighter is.  But there's not that much in it, especially with the prone rules and AoOs.  And then the druid pitches in.Simply because your players never put the thought or effort in to playing casters doesn't mean that they weren't broken sideways.  It means that your characters never put the thought or effort in.  Druids have two class features (the animal companion and Wild Shape) more powerful than the fighter's entire class.A Wizard 20 using only PHB material is not what the Char Op Elite would recommend.  And the Char Op elite are more than happy to use as much stinky cheese as possible for the meat shields - it doesn't change a thing.  Wizard 20 is going to walk over anything if played well.  And you just need one <a href="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002" target="_blank">batman wizard</a> to show you how it's done and the game won't go back.Reduced.  They do exist in a couple of very rare cases.Reduced.I guess someone ought to have told my wizard that before he ended up with more minatures on the table than the rest of the party combined.Restricted.  You can still turn people into frogs or yourself into things.Restricted.  Immurements take time and money to work.Rituals.Indeed.  The 4e Deck won't break campaigns.  You aren't going to draw from it and find you're now playing a completely different game.  No contest indeed.4e is an entirely new game under the D&D license.  And is being withdrawn because Hasbro have set targets that no edition of D&D there has ever been can meet.  And Pathfinder is an extremely well polished game that doesn't change certain fundamentals about D&D and that has the well written adventure paths.  What I'm objecting to isn't that some people prefer 3e.  I'm objecting to your notion that Exalted is a common playstyle.</blockquote>

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