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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6628639" data-attributes="member: 6787650">I don't think it's a matter of real people not doing min-maxing. People still optimize. But as you note, they optimize for different things, and that happens in D&D too. (E.g. I have no issue with flails not being Versatile, as mentioned above. I gravitate to longswords by default habit[1] but if I had a flail I wouldn't throw it away.) Some people are also better at optimizing, or better at empirical methods. (That happens in D&D too actually. Just look at people who think Savage Attacks is an awesome feat.)The contention I was responding to is that D&D PCs can only optimize by metagaming, and I believe real-life data is consistent with that viewpoint. Small fingers/left eye dominant seems like a halberd : glaive level difference (i.e. none in 5E), not a shortbow : longbow or shortsword : rapier difference of the sort which is claimed to be metagamey. d6 vs d8 is empirically noticeable within the gameworld.The whole point of my "dwarven anti-rapier clan" joke earlier was that not everybody in the real world does unbiased empirical testing. The shortsword : rapier difference is small enough that if you wanted to deny it, you could, and it would be somewhat difficult to someone to disprove your opinion empirically. (You could stab the same orc into unconsciousness with each weapon every day for a week, or even several times in a day with magical healing, and then run ANOVA on the results. But that would be unethical. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />)Edited to add: So anyway, I don't think we disagree about anything important here--I think you were just sharing some knowledge about real-world optimization, for which I thank you. Let me know if there's anything still for us to debate on this issue.[1] The habit is pointless in 5E, but it comes from AD&D, wherein the longsword does 1d8 vs. medium creatures and 1d12 vs. larger creatures. In AD&D longswords were optimal for shield users, and in 5E they're adequate for Str fighters, so I haven't had a reason to change my habits because I just don't care much about differentiating myself through choice of weaponry.</blockquote>

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