Fighter/Wizard/Rogue

[LostSoul]

Hey guys;

I was looking at one of my old 2e characters (Marcos the Mad Elf), a F/M/T, and I was wondering what the best way to convert him into 3e would be. Without having him totally suck at everything.

I advanced him from 1st level to about 15th, and he seemed decent up until around 8th level or so. After that, teh suckage started to stick.

Here's what I did:
1st: Rogue (skill points)
2nd: Fighter (BAB, feat)
3rd: Wizard (spells)
@ 6th level: Rog2/Fgt2/Wiz2. Decent skills, if I focus on Hide and Move Silently. Spells are crap, but only using them to buff helps out. BAB isn't too low - +4, same as a Cleric or Rogue. Two bonus feats help out. Altogether, not a powerful character, but not completely useless. Hit points blow, so I'd want to stay out of melee combat.

After that it starts to go down the tubes. I started taking Wiz levels to qualify for Eldrich Knight and Arcane Trickster; but the extra spells are not very handy at that level, hit points and skills blow, and Feats are hard to come by.

So: any ideas?

 

[atra2]

D&D rewards specialization, so unless you want to remake him as an arcane trickster, try this:

1: rogue (skills)
2-6: wizard. Take Craft Wand as 5th wiz bonus feat.

Now you're close to the sorc in spellpower, gaining 3rd level spells at 6th level, and
you can add 1d6 sneak to those ranged touch spells like ray of frost, scorching ray,
acid arrow, etc. You can also contribute HASTE to the party so the main wizard
doesn't have to do it. Skip armor (unless you find a mithral buckler: 0 armor check,
0 arcane failure) and rely on occasional mage armors, but think of yourself as a ray
and magic missile platform, maybe toss a Web or Glitterdust or Invis as needed.

Buy Complete Divine, and take, as your general feat, Practiced Spellcaster at 6th
level. You keep the spells of a 5th wiz, but up to four of your non-wizard levels
count as caster levels. Right now that's only the Rogue level, but you want your
caster level to match the party as you level-up. (Spell ranges, Haste is 1 target per
level, etc.)

Grab that 2nd rogue level (finally) to finish off any rogueish skill synergies, or just
max out Spot, Tumble or any other 1-2 very useful skills to have maxed. You also
pick up Evasion here.

Next, grab 1 fighter level so you have your favorite feat available. Improved
Init is always good alone, but you might consider dodge/mobility/spring attack and
your various touch spells.

Now you're 8th and rog2/wiz5/ftr1 and in your original concept. If you used your
2nd rogue level 1/2 and 1/2 to boost your Search and Disable Device, you're also
the party trapfinder, but perhaps you don't need to do that. Note that with the
Practiced Spellcaster feat mentioned earlier, you are caster level 8.

For 9th level, that 2nd fighter level can be skipped. You want to buy Complete Warrior
and take 1 level of spellsword. It's +1 BAB, +1 caster level, and lets you ignore 10%
arcane failure. (hello mithral shirt!) Depending on your character concept, you may
wish to mix Rogue and Spellsword levels the rest of the way, but despite the early
bonus, Spellsword only gives about 5 caster levels, though it lets you funnel all the
cool touch spells through your sword.

Now you're rog2/wiz5/ftr1/ss1. I'd grab that 6th wizard level for +1 BAB, +1 all saves,
and an extra 3rd level spell. Your caster level is your character level, but you need
more slots I bet. I hope you made yourself a specialist wizard, perhaps a Diviner with
True Strike in all your bonus slots

Now you're 9th level. You could consider more Wiz if that strikes your fancy, more
Rogue if you want to keep Search, Disable and Tumble up there, more spellsword,
perhaps even Eldritch Knight if you want lots more BAB and caster levels, plus another
fighter feat?

Oh, the more Rogue path would cause XP penalties for you without also raising Fighter,
but rog3/ftr2 is a nice mix, with EK level 1 giving another bonus feat, and your wizard
levels, spellsword level, and the rest of the EK levels pushing you up. You'd certainly
like all those Ray spells.

rog2/ftr1/ek1 is 4 non-caster levels, though, so if you stopped with those, and just
raised EK higher, Practiced Spellcaster would ensure you always cast at your
character level.

If you are stuck with the PHB, rog3/ftr2(or4) and enough wiz spells to boost your
playing style may work nicely. (True Strike + Invis + weapon focus and weapon spec
may let you dish out some nasty damage. Consider Keen Edge as a 3rd level spell...)

 

[dcollins]

Some people will say that any core multiclassing of spellcasters is infeasible. I find that it works pretty well as long as you pick one key spellcasting class and pick up just a few levels in side stuff to help out. Often keeping the spellcasting class at the same level as in AD&D works. For this to work without multiclassing penalties, the top spellcasting class needs to be preferred by the race (more or less).

For example, you may have had an AD&D F/M/T level 9/9/9. This converts to 3rd Ed. total levels 15th. I'd convert him to F/R/W levels 3/3/9 and it usually works out pretty playable.

 

[LostSoul]

Thanks for the help, guys!

The old character I had was 4/4/6, so that would be 8th level. Using your suggestion, that would mean Rog2/Fgt2/Wiz4. Interesting...

 

[DreamChaser]

and remember that no matter what, he won't be a super fireball slinger...but he will be awesome with things like acid arrow and scorching ray. utility and buff spells will also serve him well.

DC

 

[Thanee]

I had a character like that in 3.0, I think I went Fighter 2 Rogue 3 and Wizard all the way. Maybe Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster (or even both ) would work well for you?

Bye
Thanee

 

[LostSoul]

I had a character like that in 3.0, I think I went Fighter 2 Rogue 3 and Wizard all the way. Maybe Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster (or even both ) would work well for you?

Bye
Thanee

That's what I was thinking - grab both Eldrich Knight and Arcane Trickster (requirements overlap). Then alternate between those two PrCs.

I converted the old guy over to 3.5, and he looks pretty good at 8th level. By no means a "god" character, but not useless either. He probably would be better off with ranged feats, but that was never the concept.

 

[Darklone]

I had a guy in my group who started as a Rog... dwarf with con 20 (hitpoints yaddah, yaddah).

Later he added some single Fighter and Wizard levels while staying mainly rogue (and maxxing his rogue skills due to good int), but he planned to go wizard only till level 3 or so for utility spells like Featherfall, Invisibility, Mage Armour (against incorporeals mostly) and other similar nice things like Jump, Spiderclimb...

His BAB was comparable to a rogues, his sneak attack usually 2 or 3d6 lower, but jumping out of a window on the highest floor of a tower, casting featherfall, landing in flanking position next to a bad guy and whacking him with a twohanded Power Attacking True Strike sneak attack was a nice funny trick.

Edit: If you have feats left, try to get Miser with Magic (Metamagic) from the KPG for additional slots.

 

[dcollins]

The old character I had was 4/4/6, so that would be 8th level. Using your suggestion, that would mean Rog2/Fgt2/Wiz4. Interesting...

Actually, I would think about converting this to Ftr1/Rog1/Wiz6, again to keep the spellcasting ability constant. It might look kind of lopsided, but that's a lot of proficiencies, skills, bonus feat, and sneak attack from those two 1st-level selections.

 

[Bastoche]

Personnally, I would drop all fighter levels but concentrate my feats on fighting feats like whirlwind attack chain or the cleave chain. I would maybe take a level or 2 of fighter to gain bonus feats, but being ftr/rog/wiz will get you very sucky saves because they will be spread all over the place (fort/ref/will respectively).