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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 8548023" data-attributes="member: 7006">What's more Social... the player of the Fighter character talking to the NPCs/DM and discussing things (in first-person, third-person, or whatever)... or the Fighter player just saying one thing like "I want to know X" and then rolling a Persuasion check?  Even if they got to roll with Advantage because they had Herbalism tools, or whatever extra tools you want to give the Fighter class?The fact of the matter is... the Combat Pillar in the only one that has all the game mechanics at hand to run entire scenes in that Pillar using just the mechanics.  The game is built and designed for it, being an offshoot of a miniatures combat game.  But the Exploration and Social have the barest amount of actual dice mechanics and dice formats to play with-- it's like a Survival check or an Intimidate check or whatever in like one to three rolls or thereabouts.  And why is this?  Because way back when at the time of the game was made back in the 70s, they didn't have skills at all, there were no "checks" for the Exploration and Social Pillars... because the Exploration and Social Pillars were part and parcel with the players themselves engaging with the world as their characters.And that's why the game doesn't have and never did have the same huge mechanical engines for Exploration and Social like it does for Combat-- because both those pillars are meant to be engaged with differently than Combat.  The Exploration Pillar is all about the players describing where they are going, what they are looking for, where they are going, what they are exploring, and making choices with their player brains based off of what the DM narrates back to them.  There's no gameification or ruleset for "exploring" the D&D world... no dice system to use... it's just the DM narrating what is out there and the players responding with what they want to look and do.  Sure, maybe the DM might throw in a skill check or two just to get some levels of success or whatnot to flavor the info the DM gives out to the players... but NONE of the mechanics are a system unto themselves for "Exploration".   It's A die roll. Maybe three.  Maybe seven if the DM decided to make it a so-called "Skill Challenge".  But the Exploration is not actually about those dice rolls, it's all about the players reacting as their characters to what the DM gives them.  And the same is true (if not even doubly so) for the Social Pillar.  The entire game is based around players inhabiting their characters and making choices as their characters while interacting with other characters in the game.  Again maybe the DM might add in a Persuasion check after the conversations the PCs and NPCs have... but at no point do I think the Persuasion check is the engine for anyone's game.  It's at best an add-in to the actual vocal conversations between players and DM.I mean heck... we all understand this in the very first statement almost any DM makes when presenting things for players in all three pillars.Exploration:  "What do you do?"Social: "What do you say?"Combat:  "Roll for Initiative."One's about the dice... the other two are about the players' choices.  So while I can appreciate the desire to gameify Exploration and Social more greatly... and believe you me people have been trying to do that for years in every edition of the game... to my mind that's always like trying to make a lake out of a puddle by pouring a cup of water into it.  The puddle ain't a lake, it wasn't designed to be a lake, you can't magically turn it into a lake, and your attempts to create a lake out of it will just end up with disappointment.  So instead... accept the puddle for what it is, and if you as your Fighter character needs a Social Pillar lake, just go to the actual lake by Socializing with your DM.  Talk as your character with the DM and you can get more Social stuff out of that interaction than you'll ever get by rolling a die.  And I think everyone would be much happier if they did that.</blockquote>

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