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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6489775" data-attributes="member: 87792">Indeed, let's.In short your skills are mediocre. They are simply average other than that you have access to Perception (Athletics is not by any means one of the all-time best exploration skills when common spells make it near-irrelevant because you can levitate or fly). Your AC is a couple of points higher than most people - and with Bounded Accuracy that doesn't shut monsters out.And, for the record, the most important save isn't Con but Will.This only applies to Schrodinger's Fighter. There is no actual fighter anywhere who has access to every fighting style. If you have TWF you don't have armour mastery.Second Wind has precisely one problem. It doesn't scale. It's great at level 1 (better than Action Surge) - but it's little improved by level 20. At level 1 it heals around half your hit points. By level 3 it's around a third.Indeed. Action Surge is another front loaded ability. It's a great ability. And you have it at level 1.In practice it means you are front loaded again. By level 8 you have two stat increases and a combat feat from memory. At level 8, Strength 20 and Great Weapon Fighting rocks. But your next stat increase? Is something that wasn't good enough to take at levels 4, 6, or 8. (The Battlemaster suffers the same way when they get extra maneuvers. The only extra maneuvers they can take are ones that weren't good enough for them at level 3).Indeed. And once you've done that you spend the second ten levels choosing things that weren't good enough for you to take in the first ten.This is, however, diminishing returns. Your first extra attack doubles your (non-TWF) damage output. Your second only adds 50%. And from memory everyone gets something neat at level 11.Limited uses per day. The fighter's ability here is like having an extremely limited use extra inspiration point.Indeed, let's.Which does approximately jack to deal with the underpowered complaints. The newbie class if anything should be overpowered to make up for their lack of skill.In short something you don't control, can't rely on, and that barely shifts your DPR. W00t!It might even be the single strongest sub-class at level 3. Might. Unfortunately level 3 is when you get to pick all your best abilities. When they get extra maneuvers you simply get to choose ones that weren't good enough for you at level 3. This is a problem.  And Know Your Enemy takes a minute to use, meaning that you can find out the combat stats of people you interact with socially.Yup. They want to be a bard.A 4e-style Defender is doable if and only if you want a bargain basement version. The 1 reaction/round rather cripples it.Yup. It's more like linear wizard logarithmic fighter. And there are quite a lot of spells (Animate Dead, True Polymorph) that shatter the game.You seem to think a Short Rest takes five minutes rather than an hour.  And be working on the basis of three short rests per day rather than a single lunch break.In short they have all the out of combat utility of a 3.X fighter. Athletics is not a strong skill. (Perception is, of course).The fighter is, of course, about as good at social skills as the wizard is at athletics. You are undermining your own points here.Assuming that there's no actual rogues in the party. I've done better with a 4e high dex fighter pretending to be a rogue (six trained skills at first level).The Warlock?As you suggest.Basically the fighter doesn't scale. Low level Second Wind, Action Surge, and Combat Superiority are all awesome abilities (especially Combat Superiority: Riposte). From first to sixth level or so the fighter is probably the biggest badass in the game. They remain pretty good to level 11 - but really suffer in the back 10. Second Wind is less and less useful. Action Surge is no more useful. You already have your best combat maneuvers as a Battlemaster. Your feats are strongly in the realm of diminishing returns after level 8. And other than the Champion's regeneration there's nothing actually new you can do in the back half of the game.If they'd capped the fighter at level 10 or given it a Paragon Path system in which they chose "Charles Atlas Superpowers", "Leader of Men", or "Supernatural Warrior" I'd consider it a pretty good class. As a three level dip (Battlemaster) it's great - and levels 4-6 are also good (two ability score increases and a second attack). But after that the fighter almost stops.</blockquote>

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