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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cbas10" data-source="post: 1261047" data-attributes="member: 6459">There are a lot of comments I'd like to respond to, but this one seems to sum most of them up.As to Point 1.: Who says that the only feats out there are the ones related to combat?  Sure, by 20th level, you have 11 feats that MUST be fighter-related feats, but you have 7 or 8 others that can be anything.  I can easily specialize a fighter into one style of combat (melee, ranged, two weapon, sneaky, etc), use those 11 feats, and STILL need to dip into my "regular" feats to really finish all of the improvements I want.  This does not even take one major point into consideration: many of my feats get devoted to something that is not specifically set out to make him kewler and badder in combat, dealing more and MORE damage.  If anything, the fact that fighters have 11 feats by 20th level for nothing but combat crunchiness, leaving 7 other feats open for whatever they want, makes them even MORE versatile (thus "useful") than many other classes.As to point 2: If rogues fight only single opponents who are always aware of where they are at...if you drop a wizard in a dead-magic area...etc etc...THEY are going to be completely worthless, too, if you play a character by the numbers and powurz listed in the books.  The really fun part of this game is the fact that all characters are more or less meant to be stronger or more valuable in certain areas.  Thus, they depend on each other to cover each other's weak spots.  Thus, the group dynamic becomes very fun.If your fighter completely sucks outside of combat, it is not our fault or the fault of the game designers.  Maybe it is your fault; maybe it is the fault of your DM or his style of play.  I can tell you that a few simple additions to a "standard" fighter can make a world of difference.  Take the Cosmopolitain feat from FRCS (I cannot remember if it was added to the 3.5 PHB list); choose something like Diplomacy, a Knowledge, or even Spellcraft as the associated ability (assuming of course, you have an appropriate background).  That will certainly change the dynamic of the character and how much you can contribute outside of combat.  Even if something is not a class-skill, take a Skill Focus feat in something you want your character to be able to focus on.  Non-class skills don't mean that you are not able to learn those skills; rather they are not typical for such classes and are usually more difficult to integrate into the character's normal activity of training and improving himself.  I can easily see a fighter-type learning nearly any skill to go with any particular concept.Someone mentioned the fact that it is almost necessary to multi-class with rogue levels in order to "keep up" with the damage-dealing capacity of others.  I would love to rant, but that is not constructive.  However, I DO have one question for a lot of you: why are numbers, optimization, and kewl powurz so much more important than character concepts and roleplaying the person who makes up your character?</blockquote>

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