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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1261637" data-attributes="member: 5777">There are other people on this thread who have already stated what the problems are better than I can. Thats why I didnt feel like restating it yet again.In any event here is a partial list:Other primary fighter types tend to be just as good or better than the fighter in combat. (this is of course imo, but it is based off of actual play as well, along with lots of threads on here that run the numbers)These same other fighter types also get lots of other beanies for out of combat.Looking at the fighter he is nearly worthless outside of a fight, which means that inside of a fight he should be absolutely incredible while fighting.Even if you dont agree that others are on par or better everyone should be able to see that they just dont have much out of combat uses. If it is going to be balanced then they need a large boost in several areas.The extra feats in my campaign gave people the ability to pick up a couple of feat chains while still having a few feats here and there to use in other areas. Overall making much more interesting characters that had their moments in the sun on occasion.At one point in time we had equivalent level barb and fighter in the party. The fighter went the tank route and the barb went the beserking charger as is their wont. After a short amount of time the fighter character came to me after a session and said that they were a bit frustrated about what was going on. Even with a bit of min/maxing for a specific concept the barb still out hit, out damaged, and out lived him in the vast majority of cases. While at the same time the barb easily had 3x the options outside of combat.After talking with the others we changed his character to be what I said above. It made the fighter be what the fighter should be. A little good at most every combat style, and very good at a couple of them. Able to actually see an ememy sneak up on him, and have lots of combat options when it did happen. He still wasnt great outside of combat, but his sheer amount of options inside of combat no matter what happened was what he wanted and was going for.It wasnt over powered, it wasnt out of balance, and I really dont believe it is just my campaign that has had these problems. The fighter class is supposed to be about being a great fighter. You pick up some combat chains to be really good at, you pick up some combat options, and fighters have a lot of cool options open to them without being overpowered at all. I dont know how to stress this enough.Apparently you think I just make these changes on the fly and throw whatever I feel like into the pan seeing what happens. Very untrue. Is there anything else you would like to know? No more need to make up a lot of pointless examples about 36 feats or 2d10 hps <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I understand about responding to the babbling bit, I was hopeing you would ::chuckles::Oh yes, lots of feats from a ton of sources is needed, otherwise every fighter looks the same. This is unfortunate. But if you just go by normal d&d then a 20th level fighter useing only the phb will look nearly exactly the same anyway with having to choose 18 feats from a fairly short list.</blockquote>

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