Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 1263628" data-attributes="member: 1757">Very intelligent arguments, takyris. However...These two are not relevant to my point, since I wasn't suggesting that there's any problem with the fighter below, say, 10th level. It's the higher levels that get bad.I guess we really disagree on the usefulness of generalist abilities. IMX, in whichever game I've played, D&D rewards specialization, period. This is reflected in every character optimization strategy I have ever seen, for casters as much as for fighter types. Moreover, this is especially true in a PC-party situation. If the fighter can be out-ranged-combated by the casters or archer PrC specialists, out-meleed by the barbarian, and out-tumbled by the rogue or monk, he's going to be second fiddle in every combat situation. Jack of all trades, master of none.The fact that your PCs fall for this stuff may be problem #1. In general, it appears to me that you play your villains with vastly more intelligence (both in the cognitive and reconaissance sense) than your players are using. I use these sorts of tactics all the time, and my players respond: With illusion detection. greater dispelling, and smash-smash-smash.You've got some incautious PCs, then. My own high-level party takes every imaginable step to ensure that the villains (well, the living ones, anyway) know as little as possible about them. You're saying that class abilities can be neutralized by good intelligence; that's true for all classes, including the fighter.No, I play with tactically minded PCs, I guess. And as you said, good NPC tactics sap the party's strengths; their impact is one of general applicability, to use lawyer-ese.This is a vast generalization. If you can catch a Bbn10 when he's winded, he's made a really big mistake, and isn't playing all that well. It's not an issue of the campaign being "too easy," but the players not being smart.I am the DM, and my monsters certainly don't fight stupidly, thank you. However, at high levels, fighters actually do WORSE against smart monsters than casters or other fighter-types in most cases, because all they can do is FIGHT. Rangers have a more useful skill set, archer PrCs do ranged better, rogues have a ton of useful abilities, and barbs move faster, have more hp, and do more damage when it is time to melee. WWA, AoO increase abilities, and Cleave are the first things to vanish when you face tactically-minded opponents. What you're calling "versatility" ends up being, as Grog put it regarding the mystic theurge, "more ways to suck."Fine with me too, actually (I'm glad we agree on something!). However, keep in mind that high-level feats are unlikely to present substantially more difficulty to get to a Ftr6/other class x than to a straight fighter.</blockquote>

Verification