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<blockquote data-quote="ProfessorPain" data-source="post: 4717145" data-attributes="member: 82012">I agree and disagree. I think you can achieve the twisting of reality as 4E does, by not twisting the system, but it does water down the effect of magic for some people. Lots of people prefer this, because they feel magic was too potent in previous editions. But others feel that only when magic twists the system, does it twist reality in a meaningful way. Personally, I prefer my magic to twist the system, but thats just my preference.&nbsp;&nbsp;They bend the numbers by having higher BAB, and things like power attack. A fighter is built all around to have a better chance of succeeding on his attack roles. Things are tilted in their favor on things like a straight up attack and a grapple. Wizards can outright break the way things are done temporarily, but they have a limited pool of resources, and a very small pool of HP. &nbsp;&nbsp;If a wizard manages his spell, he ends up with enough to use on most fighters, but he isn't casting high level spells left and right, so he doesn't overshadow the noncasters. This was actually one of the easier things for me to manage in 3E. Both as a DM and as a player when I, rarely, played a spellcaster. &nbsp;&nbsp;Well, most things in the game operate this way. You construct encounters based on what will be challenging and fun for the party. It really doesn't take many to force a wizard to expend high level spells. If you are throwing monsters at them, that require a mix of spells and steal, things usually work out okay. It isn't just the number of encounters, it is the nature of and construction of encounters as well.&nbsp; &nbsp;Teleport is a tricky spell. But there is still a chance of a mishap. If players are delving into a dungeon, that is a place they have at best &quot;Seen Casually&quot; or &quot;Viewed Once&quot; (12% chance of off target or mishap, 23% chance of off target or mishap). And they can only teleport to places they know. They can't just teleport past the dragon and into the villain's secret lair, if they don't know where it is. It is still a potent spell, but like most spells, you need to pay careful attention to the text.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ProfessorPain, post: 4717145, member: 82012"] I agree and disagree. I think you can achieve the twisting of reality as 4E does, by not twisting the system, but it does water down the effect of magic for some people. Lots of people prefer this, because they feel magic was too potent in previous editions. But others feel that only when magic twists the system, does it twist reality in a meaningful way. Personally, I prefer my magic to twist the system, but thats just my preference. They bend the numbers by having higher BAB, and things like power attack. A fighter is built all around to have a better chance of succeeding on his attack roles. Things are tilted in their favor on things like a straight up attack and a grapple. Wizards can outright break the way things are done temporarily, but they have a limited pool of resources, and a very small pool of HP. If a wizard manages his spell, he ends up with enough to use on most fighters, but he isn't casting high level spells left and right, so he doesn't overshadow the noncasters. This was actually one of the easier things for me to manage in 3E. Both as a DM and as a player when I, rarely, played a spellcaster. Well, most things in the game operate this way. You construct encounters based on what will be challenging and fun for the party. It really doesn't take many to force a wizard to expend high level spells. If you are throwing monsters at them, that require a mix of spells and steal, things usually work out okay. It isn't just the number of encounters, it is the nature of and construction of encounters as well. Teleport is a tricky spell. But there is still a chance of a mishap. If players are delving into a dungeon, that is a place they have at best "Seen Casually" or "Viewed Once" (12% chance of off target or mishap, 23% chance of off target or mishap). And they can only teleport to places they know. They can't just teleport past the dragon and into the villain's secret lair, if they don't know where it is. It is still a potent spell, but like most spells, you need to pay careful attention to the text. [/QUOTE]

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