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<blockquote data-quote="insanogeddon" data-source="post: 4717184" data-attributes="member: 82822">Case in PointAs thankfully pointed out by Ourph the zombie grey renderer is substantially worse than a real one.&nbsp; Its probably telling that all those looking at the board didn't realise this or worse didn't point it out.&nbsp; No wonder 'casters rulez'.&nbsp; HD limit on zombies from animate, no con bonus, dex penalty, no feats, ONE ACTION.. never mind that its a action to command them and they are as able to comprehend complexity as a retarded snake.&nbsp;This typifies how casters manage to match fighters in games at fighting in some of the games I have personally played.&nbsp; Poor rules understandin, poor DM ship, cheating, ignoring equipment etc.&nbsp; Thats been my experience.&nbsp;Charm/Dominate/Geas are much the same.&nbsp; Its a chr check to order things and an action... utter waste of actions.&nbsp; Then again if your in a caster biased worls where you can cheat (I REALLY miss those days) then mindless domination can be yours without action without ramification or sensible follow thru.&nbsp;Flying wizards blasting things from 600ft: thats - 60 to spot.. man I can manipulate the system but a wizard with + 60 spot... I thought Rethian the eagle eyed (Wild Elf Shaman 6 Seeker of the Misty Isle 6 with 'Quick Reconnoiter' from 'Complete Adventurer' so spot and listen were free not move actions) was talented with +35 in a class skill at 12th level:&nbsp; +60 cross classed... bugger me!&nbsp;Couple times in this post wizards casting 'silence' have been mentioned...&nbsp; &nbsp;Wizards are mentioned as better infiltrators with disguise self or invis, I assume the DM never has listen checks or sense motive either...&nbsp; then again maybe the wizards with +60 spot also manage +60 bluff as well?&nbsp;Summon spells have a duration, enemies are often on home ground:&nbsp; not hard to retreat or prot. from evil, DISPEL, or wall off the summoned creatures which wont have items like helms of teleportation.&nbsp;Teleporting into the big nasties lair indicates a high level... as mentioned by another what sort of high level nasty doesn't have his home under 'Private Sanctuary' and/or 'Forbiddance' ?&nbsp;Its all seems to be pointing to those that play dnd, an inately high magic world, and yet somehow get all the magic to themselves get to dominate (un-supprising).&nbsp; Where as those in campaigns where the DM plays the world as just that: a highly magic world, its all pretty equal.&nbsp; All have their moments.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="insanogeddon, post: 4717184, member: 82822"] [b]Case in Point[/b] As thankfully pointed out by Ourph the zombie grey renderer is substantially worse than a real one. Its probably telling that all those looking at the board didn't realise this or worse didn't point it out. No wonder 'casters rulez'. HD limit on zombies from animate, no con bonus, dex penalty, no feats, ONE ACTION.. never mind that its a action to command them and they are as able to comprehend complexity as a retarded snake. This typifies how casters manage to match fighters in games at fighting in some of the games I have personally played. Poor rules understandin, poor DM ship, cheating, ignoring equipment etc. Thats been my experience. Charm/Dominate/Geas are much the same. Its a chr check to order things and an action... utter waste of actions. Then again if your in a caster biased worls where you can cheat (I REALLY miss those days) then mindless domination can be yours without action without ramification or sensible follow thru. Flying wizards blasting things from 600ft: thats - 60 to spot.. man I can manipulate the system but a wizard with + 60 spot... I thought Rethian the eagle eyed (Wild Elf Shaman 6 Seeker of the Misty Isle 6 with 'Quick Reconnoiter' from 'Complete Adventurer' so spot and listen were free not move actions) was talented with +35 in a class skill at 12th level: +60 cross classed... bugger me! Couple times in this post wizards casting 'silence' have been mentioned... Wizards are mentioned as better infiltrators with disguise self or invis, I assume the DM never has listen checks or sense motive either... then again maybe the wizards with +60 spot also manage +60 bluff as well? Summon spells have a duration, enemies are often on home ground: not hard to retreat or prot. from evil, DISPEL, or wall off the summoned creatures which wont have items like helms of teleportation. Teleporting into the big nasties lair indicates a high level... as mentioned by another what sort of high level nasty doesn't have his home under 'Private Sanctuary' and/or 'Forbiddance' ? Its all seems to be pointing to those that play dnd, an inately high magic world, and yet somehow get all the magic to themselves get to dominate (un-supprising). Where as those in campaigns where the DM plays the world as just that: a highly magic world, its all pretty equal. All have their moments. [/QUOTE]

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