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Fighters didn't matter after 11th level?
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<blockquote data-quote="Wolfwood2" data-source="post: 4717656" data-attributes="member: 39394"><p>There was a really awesome phrase used earlier in this thread. "A lot of effort in pursuit of a dubious goal". That's what I think of every time I read one of your posts.</p><p></p><p>The DM can manage all of this, sure. The DM can drive the game reality so that there's a lot of baddies and the PCs can't pause to rest (while making sure all these baddies aren't bunched in one place and just straight-out kill the unrested party). THe DM can make it harder to pull buffs off. The DM can work the game so that non-caster can shine.</p><p></p><p>But you know what? A lot of DMs don't have the time or inclination to think about this stuff. And frankly, I'd prefer that my DM be able to spend his limited planning time on stuff like the unique culture of the fantasy kingdom, the internal politics of the organization the PCs belong to, and fluff stuff like that. I'd rather not have them putting in a lot of effort in pursuit of the dubious goal of making sure that magic feels 'special', yet non-casters still have interesting things to do.</p><p></p><p>4E starts out with the premise that everybody should have interesting things to do and builds the entire system around that. Making magic feel special is regulated to the secondary goal rather than a primary precept. If a DM puts the same effort into making magic feel special that he did into making sure that magic didn't overpower encounters in 3E, it ought to feel pretty darn special.</p><p></p><p>It goes back into something said in the article. Third edition was/is such an awesome system that many players and DMs accepted the more troublesome parts of it as "just the way things are'. Magic gets to break the rules of the game system because that's just the way things are because magic is special, and we use the excellent tools that third edition provides to get around that problem. But why should we have to?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wolfwood2, post: 4717656, member: 39394"] There was a really awesome phrase used earlier in this thread. "A lot of effort in pursuit of a dubious goal". That's what I think of every time I read one of your posts. The DM can manage all of this, sure. The DM can drive the game reality so that there's a lot of baddies and the PCs can't pause to rest (while making sure all these baddies aren't bunched in one place and just straight-out kill the unrested party). THe DM can make it harder to pull buffs off. The DM can work the game so that non-caster can shine. But you know what? A lot of DMs don't have the time or inclination to think about this stuff. And frankly, I'd prefer that my DM be able to spend his limited planning time on stuff like the unique culture of the fantasy kingdom, the internal politics of the organization the PCs belong to, and fluff stuff like that. I'd rather not have them putting in a lot of effort in pursuit of the dubious goal of making sure that magic feels 'special', yet non-casters still have interesting things to do. 4E starts out with the premise that everybody should have interesting things to do and builds the entire system around that. Making magic feel special is regulated to the secondary goal rather than a primary precept. If a DM puts the same effort into making magic feel special that he did into making sure that magic didn't overpower encounters in 3E, it ought to feel pretty darn special. It goes back into something said in the article. Third edition was/is such an awesome system that many players and DMs accepted the more troublesome parts of it as "just the way things are'. Magic gets to break the rules of the game system because that's just the way things are because magic is special, and we use the excellent tools that third edition provides to get around that problem. But why should we have to? [/QUOTE]
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