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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ProfessorPain" data-source="post: 4718332" data-attributes="member: 82012">My intentions were not to be hostile or angry, I appologize if it came accros that way. But I do feel we have reached an impasse. And my goal hasn't been to change anyone's mind, but present the solutions I found to the problem. I have given examples of what works in my game; and we disagree on how effective my remedies would be. I think our experiences are very different. The player element is an important consideration here. But I have seen my game go from imbalanced to balanced by implementing the various remedies I mentioned. If I fail to change your mind, that is okay. You seem like a polite poster and everything. But I am just running out of steam on this topic. Originally I just wanted to give my two cents on what I found helpful. Not get drawn into an argument about the merits and flaws of 3EWe can agree to disagree. I think I just misread your dissagreement more strongly than it was intended.     This just hasn't been the case in my game. In practice, these have worked fine for me. The casters may not be able to effectively fight the creature directly, but if they use their spells to assist the combat classes, things balance out pretty well. In fact this is sort of the reverse of the typical, fighter guards the wizard while he casts uber spell scenario.   I do agree that players are important in this respect. But I have seen a broken game fixed by DM management, so I think the DMs role is more important as the rules adjudicator and narrator.   I concede that the lack of spell caster has a more pronounced effect than the lack of a fighter. But they can't replicate everything a fighter brings to the table, and even when they come close, they are limited by what is available and the spells they have memorized. You can't assume access to every spell for every situation. By the same token, if the fighter is missing, but the cleric is around, he doesn't have a high BAB guy to use buff spells on (though summoning, which takes a round, can help). He can use them on himself, but as others have pointed out, that wastes a round on something that does about as much damage in the end as a simple area of effect or strike spell. Much better to have a fighter to buff, and then unleash other spells while he is going to town.</blockquote>

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