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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AllisterH" data-source="post: 4718463" data-attributes="member: 51325">I think the easiest way to answer your question Bullgrit is simply do any random Adventure path with the standard 4 person party. Figher- Cleric - Rogue and Wizard. It's what my group actually did once we wanted to come out with house rules.At low levels, 1-5, I always found that you could replace the wizard with another copy of the other 3 classes and in fact, you actually will probably be more successful. The rogue is also essential in many of these low level adventures as neither the wizard or the cleric can duplicate the capabilities of said rogue as they neither have the money or the slots to waste or even know the spells.Thus, the "best" party at low levels is 2x rogue (or 1 fighter, 1 rogue) plus ( 1 x cleric and 1 druid or 2 cleric or 2 druids).Levels 6-11, this is when EVERYONE contributes unless it is a 4 person druid team or a tricked out (splatbook enhanced) Cleric. Even here, while some claim a 4 person druid team can handle anything, I still believe a group would be more successful with one rogue and 3 divine casters.After level 12, the rogue quickly becomes less essential. Unless you turn the rogue into spellcaster lite via UMD (really, why do people consider a wand wielding character a rogue and not a member of the magic using class?) As others mentioned, enemies quickly start becoming either too big, too tough or just plain immune to a rogue in combat. Out of combat, by this time, a smart player of the magic using classes ESPECIALLY a wizard has the cash and downtime to duplicate any rogue skill but BETTER. In terms of damage, the fighter is STILL useful but it isn't essential since either a cleric or a druid can via the right combination of spells can match the fighter INcombat and totally cominate out of combat. Thus at levels 11+, I say Cleric, Druid and Wizard are essential, with Fighters being a 4th choice that can be substituted with a player who knows how to maximize a cleric or a druid. The rogue though...that's a total non-essential member of the team.</blockquote>

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