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Message: <blockquote data-quote="insanogeddon" data-source="post: 4718752" data-attributes="member: 82822">EquateClerics need to put in alot of effort to equate to fighters (by equate I mean get close to) and I have yet to see the buffed cleric thats better at fighting than a WELL made warrior and thats not even taking onto account the extra actions/ability to cope with shock troops etc the fighter gets thru not having to prep. (what SUPER genius and ancient EVIL opponent lets you sleep peacefully all the time?  if DMs play the main villans that foolishly suicidal in my experience I can feel no more sense of achievement then if the big bad piled up his treasure and decapitate himself when the group first peeps into the dungeon). Cleric spells match a fighter at a base level, but what fighter fights at a base level??  Cleric spells don't grant the feats/benefits from specialisation (or rage) up and so the matching is a base matching when in game after feats, items, stat expenditure etc etc they never come close and just waste effort being poor clerics and basic fighters as opposed to being exeptional clerics and channeling some o those buffs to group benefits making themselves more surviveable and making the fighters equally more surviveble and stomping all the foes with little disaster and becoming thusly rich and powerful without death continuity hassles derailing story without player boredom as others accrew dimond dust and debt thus loosingto the group that doesn't have such needless expenses.... I am still bitter about being wupped by an opposing adventuring party that I grudgingly admit had their heads in a better place than our groups back then generic 'silly selfish evil'. A heroes feast in the morning and a recitation (two things that benefit everyone) is a far better spell use.  And a fighter* and a cleric sticking to role will stomp and cleric/ melle cleric combo. By fighter I don't necessarily mean the class.. warriors are not chained to a spoon fed path of caster level crumbs thus can immerse more in the DMs creation and like conan or any great hero adventurer be a pirate/soldier/savage/bandit/champion/fronteers man etc etc as they inevitably are over 20 levels.  Level mechanics can show this as opposed to mere blurb selling this that casters need to rely on as they are trapped into a caster level arms race.  Mixing Barbarian/fighter/ranger or anything that takes their fantasy and the DMs and other players further (guiding this to include the ability to use wands is never a crime.. no one in that much damaged alot has no just cause to have a soft spot for the divine).</blockquote>

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