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Fighter's Mark makes DM combat less fun
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<blockquote data-quote="knightofround" data-source="post: 4482681" data-attributes="member: 27884"><p>inati,</p><p></p><p>I think you're missing the difference between an OA and the immediate reaction basic attack granted by the Fighter challange. Its easy to confuse the two because they both use the same "melee basic attack" wording, but they are very different. I had a PC that tried to abuse this mechanic as well, but I found with a closer look at the wording it doesn't pan out.</p><p></p><p>Reposting the section:</p><p></p><p>Fighter Combat Challange</p><p></p><p></p><p>Combat Superiority</p><p></p><p></p><p>The wording in the combat challange is specifically "a melee basic attack" rather than "a opportunity attack. This has both an upside and a downside. </p><p></p><p>The upside is that the free attack from the challange does not count towards the fighter's 1 OA per turn. So, if a fighter is adjacent to an enemy and that enemy moves without shifting, this provokes an OA. If that enemy enemy attacks an ally, and is still adjacent to the fighter, that can trigger a "challenge immediate reaction" as well. So the enemy could potentially get smacked twice for ignoring the fighter. </p><p></p><p>The downside is that all feats and abilities that enhance OAs do not enhance the attack granted by the "challenge immediate reaction". This is a good thing imho to prevent the abuse of feats such as Polearm Gambit and Combat Superiority.</p><p></p><p>So the end result....this is what would happen from my view:</p><p>1. Fighter does an AE on five goblins. He misses all of them. All five goblins are marked.</p><p>2. All five goblins shift.</p><p>3. Fighter gets one "challange attack" against whichever of the 5 goblin he wants. (Irregardless of if they are still in range or not, because the challenge is an interrupt, which technically happens before the shift)</p><p>4. No OAs are made, because shifting does not provoke attacks of opportunity.</p><p></p><p>Allowing 9 opportunity attacks to result from *1* attack would be incredibly overpowering. =P If the PC is smart enough to pick up polearm gambit, it would get even more insane.</p><p></p><p>Another reason why the 9 opportunity attacks doesn't work is because you get only 1 opportunity attack per TURN. The goblins aren't shifting on their individual turns, they're shifting on the FIGHTER's turn. So if a fighter makes an attack and for some odd reason forces multiple enemies to open themselves up to AoOs (which isn't possible, as outlined above) he could only choose one of which to make his OA on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="knightofround, post: 4482681, member: 27884"] inati, I think you're missing the difference between an OA and the immediate reaction basic attack granted by the Fighter challange. Its easy to confuse the two because they both use the same "melee basic attack" wording, but they are very different. I had a PC that tried to abuse this mechanic as well, but I found with a closer look at the wording it doesn't pan out. Reposting the section: Fighter Combat Challange Combat Superiority The wording in the combat challange is specifically "a melee basic attack" rather than "a opportunity attack. This has both an upside and a downside. The upside is that the free attack from the challange does not count towards the fighter's 1 OA per turn. So, if a fighter is adjacent to an enemy and that enemy moves without shifting, this provokes an OA. If that enemy enemy attacks an ally, and is still adjacent to the fighter, that can trigger a "challenge immediate reaction" as well. So the enemy could potentially get smacked twice for ignoring the fighter. The downside is that all feats and abilities that enhance OAs do not enhance the attack granted by the "challenge immediate reaction". This is a good thing imho to prevent the abuse of feats such as Polearm Gambit and Combat Superiority. So the end result....this is what would happen from my view: 1. Fighter does an AE on five goblins. He misses all of them. All five goblins are marked. 2. All five goblins shift. 3. Fighter gets one "challange attack" against whichever of the 5 goblin he wants. (Irregardless of if they are still in range or not, because the challenge is an interrupt, which technically happens before the shift) 4. No OAs are made, because shifting does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Allowing 9 opportunity attacks to result from *1* attack would be incredibly overpowering. =P If the PC is smart enough to pick up polearm gambit, it would get even more insane. Another reason why the 9 opportunity attacks doesn't work is because you get only 1 opportunity attack per TURN. The goblins aren't shifting on their individual turns, they're shifting on the FIGHTER's turn. So if a fighter makes an attack and for some odd reason forces multiple enemies to open themselves up to AoOs (which isn't possible, as outlined above) he could only choose one of which to make his OA on. [/QUOTE]
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